Episode 24: Mind, Body and Wholeism


In this episode, you will learn:

  • Hear Magic’s story and how severe her former health problems were

  • Learn what a PNEI neural pathway is and how they are part of healing

  • Learn what a root cause analysis will give you and how to request one yourself

  • Learn how many systems the body actually has and how they all play together

Episode 24: Mind, Body and Wholeism

Katie Wrigley  0:00  

This is the pain changer podcast episode 24. Last week on The pain changer we chatted with Kathy White about the benefits of yoga for chronic pain. This week yet another amazing guest Magic Barclay. Have I mentioned how much I love this world of podcasting and all the cool people I get to meet? Well I’m mentioning it now. I love, love, love this world. And at any rate, Magic has taken a new approach to wellness and health care by digging deep into the root cause behind chronic issues. She’s going to tell us about that coming up next. 

Before we dive into this week’s show, I want to call out this week’s listener of the week. This week’s listener of the week is The Effortless Life who says “The pain changer is a must listen. Katie is as genuine as they come. She has a heart of service and is here to help you overcome any kind of chronic pain you may be experiencing. As someone who has been in your shoes, she gets it. Every episode is packed with valuable information to help you get relief and finally experience what it’s like to live with less pain and more freedom.” Thank you so much for listening, Effortless Life. Please send me a DM on Instagram to @coachktdubs. That is @coachktdubs. And let me know you heard me give you a shout out. I will send you a small gift as my way of saying thank you for your help to spread the word that you can accept the diagnosis without accepting the prognosis. 

Let’s dive into this week’s show shall we? Joining me today is Magic Barclay. Magic is the lead practitioner at holistic Natural Health Australia and host of the podcast “A Magical Life: Health, Wealth, and Weight Loss”. Magic’s life changed when she faced multiple life threatening conditions. She then decided to find the root cause of her health issues and that set her on a path of life changing learning. Magic helps mainly women aged 45 to 65 who feel unheard or misled by mainstream medicine or anyone who wants to bring their health back to basics by treating root cause and the systems of the body. Not chasing symptoms, reconnecting to the environment and overcoming their past trauma and that of previous generations through healing the PNEI which stands for psycho neuro endo immune pathways of the body. She is also a Master Practitioner in mold toxicity recovery. Personally, she is a mom of two amazing humans and two gorgeous furbabies, grower of organic food for her family, and a passionate native gardener. Welcome to the pain changer podcast Magic. I am so happy to have you join me today.

Magic  3:04  

Thank you so much for having me. It’s certainly my pleasure to be here.

Katie Wrigley  3:09  

Well, thank you. I love hearing from various practitioners out there who are doing the work and helping people really get to the root of their issues. And what you say in your bio, that really resonates. So many people, I’m 47 myself, and so many people feel misled, feel gaslighted, feel unheard, ignored, you name it. They felt it for the medical industry, anything other than supportive, supported and heard. So thank you.

Magic  3:38  

Yeah and I was there. So, you know, I was putting out with the gaslighting and the feeling dismissed and unheard and misled for so long. And the straw that broke the camel’s back, what’s really the neck damage that broke Magic’s neck is, you know, a botched surgery and then lies from the surgeon to me to my GP, you know, and here I am six years post surgery, and I’m left with a very damaged neck and constant pain that I have to manage. And that’s really kind of led me to opening my practice and doing the things that I do because I’m not going to put up with mainstream medicine, just lying and bluffing their way through anymore. And I don’t think anyone else needs to.

Katie Wrigley  4:31  

Agreed. Would you be comfortable to share a little bit more around your story that led you to this? I’m so sorry that that’s been your experience in the medical community but if any part of it that you’re willing to share, I think it will really help people who have been in the same place and have been lied to and everything that you just mentioned.

Magic  4:50  

Definitely, look at it started decades ago. You know, I was putting weight on for no particular reason and I went to my GP and I said, you know, I think something’s wrong with my thyroid. I’ve kind of, you know, Google was still new back then. But I’ve Doctor Googled it. And I really think something’s wrong. And you know, this lack of energy that I have, and neuropathy and you know, something’s really wrong. And basically, I got told I was a lunatic, and that I had something seriously wrong with my brain. Because I was making this up. I was attention seeking. And, you know, so dismissed. And then I went to a different GP, and they said, “You’ve got Munchausen, sounds like there’s actually nothing wrong with your body. It’s your brain.” And so, you know, years on, I ended up leaving the town that I was living in, and I was so sick, I just could not cope with anything. I had zero energy, you know, I would be asleep 22 hours a day, and pretty much only be up to cook a meal for my kids or take them to school and pick them up. And, you know, just things were, I was tanking. So I went to a new GP. And I say, look, nothing’s wrong with my thyroid, but I think it is, but all the doctors who said nothing is and you know, I don’t know what’s going on. But I feel like trucks hit me pretty much. And he actually listened. And he said, Okay, that’s valid. I hear that, you know, let’s do some testing. So everything led to a cancer diagnosis. Now, it was when I had the cancer diagnosis that I was really switched on to alternative medicine outside the mainstream. You know, yes, I’d found a great GP, but he was young. And so I’d say I think I’ve got this, he’d go “well you research it, come back and tell me because I actually don’t know anything. I’m gonna be honest.” So that was really good. So yeah, cancer diagnosis forced into having surgery, even though I wanted to take it on myself naturally. Had the surgery was basically told to my face by the surgeon. You know, don’t worry about the cavity in your neck where we took your thyroid out, because lo and behold, yes, it was thyroid cancer. And, you know, but don’t worry about that. We’ve put titanium mesh in there. It will just spill over, you’ll be fine.

Magic  7:32  

Okay. All right. Then she wrote to my GP, my great GP, and said no, no, we searched the whole thing. Dissolvable searches should be fun. So we’re told two different things. And then about 12 months later, I’m sick of my neck hurting. My neck is in pain, it feels like someone’s grabbing an axe and hitting me down the right side of my neck pretty much all the time. So I go to see a chiro that I trust. And I know him very well. And he says, let’s do a spinal X ray. Because something’s not right here. We do the spinal X ray. And we see that it looks like someone’s given a toddler, a stapler. And they’ve just gone have at it. Oh, there is at least 100 to 150 staples in my neck. Titanium staples, not sutures, not mesh staples. So the hard truth is what’s on the X ray, which is not what the surgeon said to me or to my GP. All right. So now I’m left with these staples that are too dangerous to take out because of the way they’ve been put in, that have caused stenosis in my neck. So a structural issue, which causes the pain because it impinges my nerves. And so here I am with this. Now looking back, I could be really bitter, I was forced into surgery. It is what it is. That was six years ago, being upset about it now won’t help. But that, like I said was the straw that broke the camel’s back or the surgery that broke my neck. And so that’s where I’m at. And it was really, you know, through treating my pain and through treating the cancer. So I didn’t have chemo or radiation. I absolutely refused. I said, Well, you’ve twisted my arm, legally, because I was going through family court. That’s how that all happened. Yeah, you’ve made me go and get the surgery, but I’m not doing anything else. I’m treating it naturally. I’m in full remission. You know, I don’t stick my head in the sand. I keep an eye on my numbers. I listen to what my body says. But that was really what launched me into holistic healing. And what wholeism is, looking at the whole body, so all 13 body systems, how do they work together? You know, the stenosis in my neck. So that’s skeletal which is structural, but it’s also Nervous System because the nerves are impinged, its blood flow. So it’s circulatory. It’s lymph. My lymph is damaged from the surgery. So it’s the lymphatic system. It’s my limbic system, because it affects how I think and feel. So there’s, you know, looking at all of the systems of the body, and how do they plan together. And so wholelism is what I use to treat people now. And that has come from my own journey.

Katie Wrigley  10:26  

Wow. And I mean, the audience can’t see me, but my jaw dropped at some of what she’s saying. And I even felt rage on your behalf for what you’ve gone through, you said a couple things there that I want to tap into that, you know, there’s no point in being upset at it, because it was six years ago. But I would imagine that you didn’t go immediately from “Oh, you screwed up my neck permanently” to “oh, I’m alright”. I imagine there was a lot of emotional processing that you did in there in order to be okay, and be neutral about what happened to you, which from what I sound like would be blatant malpractice in the United States. And I would hope it would be considered blatant malpractice in Australia and everywhere else in the world. So is there some truth in what I just said that there was a lot of processing and healing?

Magic  11:18  

Yeah, look for a while I couldn’t even drive past the hospital without road raging from my own car, screaming at the hospital building. I actually ended up back in the very same hospital a couple of years ago with some heart issues. And as I went into the emergency department, the very same hospital, I’ve been referred by my GP thinking I’m having a heart attack. And they had me waiting in emergency for hours. Oh, my gosh. So and then when I went into emergency, we finally got, you know, put in a chair. They were looking at my blood pressure, and it was off the charts. And they did blood tests. And I had high troponin levels, which suggests a heart attack. And they left me to my own devices. And here, I was already a natural health practitioner. I got my own blood pressure down by doing breathing techniques and things like that. And the doctor was watching me and he came over. And he said, How did you just do that? How did you get your blood pressure numbers down? I said easy, I use breathing techniques. And he goes “No, no, no, that can’t work.” “Well you’ve been watching me. I’ve been watching you watching me. Mind you, you haven’t come over to check on me and I’m supposed to be here for a heart attack. I don’t really think that’s suitable medical ethics to leave someone alone. If they’re having a heart attack.” And he goes “Well, if you’re okay, you can go home.” And I’m like, thank you very much bleep hospital because I’m not gonna say their name. You have just confirmed everything I’ve thought and felt and I left that at that time full of rage as well. And I was really annoyed they actually had an automatic doors because I wanted the satisfaction of slamming the door behind me but I couldn’t. So I swore my way out of there. Probably not appropriate but it made me feel better. 

Katie Wrigley  13:27  

Understandable! And you know, sometimes appropriateness, it makes sense to have a take a back door to getting stuff out. And when you have someone dismissing a heart attack, and then telling you that what they’re watching you do as it’s working can’t possibly work because his medical degree somehow didn’t cover breathing techniques. Anybody would be in a rage. And yeah, that’s so, oh my gosh, I’m just I’m appalled at everything that you’ve been through and I so wish that this was a solo incident, but it’s not. I’ve had people reach out to me, I had someone reach out to me who had something wrong with her back, the back surgery went bad, the surgeon’s knife nicked the spinal cord, and she’s worse. And that’s it, now it can’t be repaired. And those aren’t the only two stories, part of my history was malpractice. Everybody I know, who has some sort of chronic issue has had some sort of malpractice, some sort of gaslighting, something negative done to them that has left some level of trauma or even full blown, post traumatic stress in some cases, you know, like your your example of not being able to go by the hospital without going into a rage. That’s a trigger and of course it would be, it makes sense. Yeah. So you had mentioned I actually have two questions. They may be the same or they I think they may be related. But you mentioned there are 13 systems in the body. And then you also mentioned in your bio, the PNEI pathways. So I’m curious, what are the 13 systems in the body? You already listed a few. And then how do these PNEI pathways play into that? If that’s the right question.

Magic  15:26  

Yeah, that’s great! Well, the 13 systems obviously, include the ones that we know, Grigory cardiovascular skeletal, yep. But they also include the limbic system, which is your emotional brain, that is actually a system of its own, because it affects everything that you do, everything that you say, feel, do, etc. So without listing all 13 systems, because we’ll be here forever, I will explain the PNEI and how it works, because this is probably, to me, one of the most important, obviously, you know, I love the lymphatic system, it’s never talked about. I am left with lymphedema after my surgery. And so that’s how I learned about it. So the lymphatic system is one I will touch on solely before the PNEI. And the lymphatic system is responsible for taking waste out of the body. And when it can’t do that when it is damaged, so it’s actually a closed loop system. Right. So it doesn’t have a particular exit point. It works with the other systems to do that. Okay, now, when it is damaged, it means you get an accumulation of waste and your listeners can’t see but I have a couple of extra chins going on. And I will always have that now. And that is lymphedema because that is blocked, trapped, limp waste. And if you feel it, it doesn’t feel like fat, it actually feels like little bubbles of water. So, you know that’s, that’s lymphedema. You can also get lipoedema, which is deposits of fat and Lipo-lymphedema. So this is all the lymphatic system, something we don’t talk about enough. And, you know, surveys were done. Years ago, I think in the US, actually. And it was point zero 7% of medical professionals even knew what the lymphatic system did. Oh, that’s scary. That is scary. So that’s one system but on to the PNEI. So it’s a psycho neuro endo immunology. And it’s particularly related to trauma. So trauma from malpractice, trauma from childhood, trauma from stubbing your toe, trauma from having to give a talk in public, could be any trauma. And so what it is, is the psycho. I mentioned the limbic system, central part of your brain. So you have your reptilian brain which is at the base which scans everything for safety, it’s working constantly, whether we know it, like it or not, it’s happening. You walk into a room it says “Is that bookshelf gonna fall on me? Is the door gonna come off the hinges? Is the roof gonna cave in?”  like you don’t even know it’s doing this. It’s it’s doing it all the time. That’s its job. It kicks that information up to the central part of the brain known as the limbic brain. And that is where we attach thoughts, feelings, meanings to everything. So I mentioned public speaking, this is a really great one to go through.

Magic  18:25  

So the reptilian brain says, “ohh public speaking, I don’t know if you’re gonna be, say someone might throw something at you, you might fall off the stage, microphone might bite you in the face”, like, you know, anything might happen? The limbic brain then goes “Ohh how do you feel about that?” Well, you feel really nervous and really shaky. And you might feel, you know, a little bit maybe have impostor syndrome, or maybe that you’re wasting people’s time or that something. So you attach a thought and a feeling and a meaning to having to give a talk in public. Now, it doesn’t stop there. If you don’t listen to those thoughts and feelings, and we don’t, we dismiss them all the time. Okay. Oh, yes. Hey, it’s just a thought or a feeling I’ll get over it, you know, yeah. So it kicks it over to the nervous system. So you might start feeling pain, or you might start feeling dizzy, or, you know, something will happen. You might not be able to feel your hands or your feet. Because there’s talks coming up. It’s your nervous system trying to keep you safe. So the reptilian brain has said, “This is not a safe situation. Make that mean something”. The limbic brain has gone “Well make you think all these things because you’re not safe. Oh, not listening to me?” Nervous System comes in. “Now I’m gonna give you some pain, because you’re not safe.” Yeah, something could happen. Not something will happen. Something could happen. You ignore that ego? No, it’s just because I’m nervous. So okay, I’ll still kind of give the tour Oh, yeah, so then your endocrine system comes in, so your hormonal system, so you start getting hot flashes, you’re getting closer to the stage and all of a sudden you’re sweating bullets and your heart might get a bit dizzy. Again, you might get a little bit nauseous, your endocrine system is changing your hormonal profile to keep you safe. Now, this all gets ignored, because you still have to give that talk. So all of a sudden, you’ve got a sniffy nose, you’re about to go on the stage and your nose is running, and your throat’s tightening. And you think, Oh, great, now I’m getting a cold. That’s your immune system jumping in to keep you safe. Because your body doesn’t think you should go and do this talk. Okay, so that’s an example of how it works. Obviously, a bit of a silly example, but you know, it shows how they’re all tied in. And of all the systems of the body, you know, said the lymphatic, super important. The limbic brain is super important. Nervous System we know is super important. They’re all important. Oh, yes, but the big dog on the block is the immune system. Because if all the other systems can’t do what they’re doing, the immune system launches a reaction. So a series of symptoms, which are classified as a reaction to something to a threat, it’s all about being safe. And so when we’re in pain, the immune system can launch a reaction. And it’s called Fibromyalgia which is transient massive pain throughout the body. Because your immune system says you are not safe. I don’t know what to do with this information. It’s known to start slowing down parts of your body with pain. You’re going to call the nervous system in here too. And I’m going to make you sick.

Katie Wrigley  21:53  

Yep. Autoimmune disease as a for instance, Fibromyalgia is a great example. It’s, it’s being looked at as autoimmune now or they have sudden onset of multiple sclerosis or sudden onset of these other diseases, like, where did it come from? And I, I love that you gave that as an example. And I actually disagree that it’s silly, because public speaking everybody has a reaction to it. Like, the stats still say that people are more afraid of getting on stage and they are of dying. Like think about that for a moment. You fear what’s going to happen to you on a stage more than death. And what’s really funny about your story, Magic, that you wouldn’t have any idea about is I actually had a Spanx mishap. 20 minutes before I got on stage in Sydney, Australia, when I was there for a work event. And thank God for high speed dryers and high heels because that is how I got on stage. And no one knew that I had had a Spanx mishap because the Spanx mishap looks like you pee in your pants. I didn’t, but it looked like I did. And all I could do was sit there and watch and go, “Oh, this is happening. This is I’m watching pee pool inside my Spanx and I’m on stage in 25 minutes. Shit.” This is happening, and I had to deal with it. But as a result of that my fear of getting on stage got much, much higher. And I’m sure not coincidentally, my chronic pain was also getting higher. And you touched on a few things there. So with cognomovement, we’re really speaking to the neurology, the central nervous system. But you also talked about a few things like I’ve had other episodes on trauma, that reptilian brain that’s what’s constantly going and when you get into chronic trauma, or you have a high level PTSD that has gone unnoticed for a while like we see this with certain professions, like first responders. We also see with people in chronic pain, you start to get into a state of perpetual fight or flight your reptilian brain never sits down. You know, and this is why I divide life into the four areas of impact. You got physical, emotional, mental, and verbal. And the physical side, all of those things are happening in your body and they tie into your emotions. And there’s things that we can do in each area to help counter that. So part of what I do is exactly what you’re talking about, reptilian brain passes off the info to the limbic system, it goes, No, we’re really not safe here. Seriously, listen to me. No, no, no, it’s just a thought. It gets into the middle of that emotional thought loop, helps break it apart, shift the perspective, so the neurology calms down, the limbic system calls down, reptilian brain calms down, everything else calms down and your brain goes. “Okay, yeah, I can do this.” And then you can go do the thing. Get on stage, change your pain, whatever it may be, but I really liked the way that you dissected those systems at me makes it so easy to follow like, oh, there is a link between emotions and physical pain, there is a link between waste, which means it’s also a link to what you eat, and what is happening in your body, everything comes into play together.

Magic  25:16  

Totally. And you know, I mentioned there’s three layers of the brain. So above the limbic system is your logical brain. So when you feel unsafe, then you put an attachment or meaning, an emotion to it, then you make a supposition, which is your logical brain. So for me, driving past that awful hospital, triggered me, made me feel really angry and unhappy. And, you know, a bit of PTSD going on. Yeah. But now the logical reasoning is what kicks in, I would rather drive an hour to go to a different hospital because x y Zed happened here. And I know it’s likely to happen again. So we need to push through the emotions and go, Okay, what can I take from this, and you said, you know, earlier on, you know, how did I get through this, I listened to what was going on, I listened to my emotions, my feelings of not being safe. And so now logically, I can say, if something happens again, okay, what do I need to do? I need to find another hospital. If I need to go to a hospital, I need to find a way to deal with this. I need to put myself first and I need to listen to myself. And that’s all come because all three layers of my brain are working. And all three layers of my brain are important. And I’m listening. And I think when we’ve been gaslighted, or dismissed, we stop listening. Because we’re so set up to think it’s our fault. Mm hmm. Absolutely. So we really have to burst through that it is not your fault that you are sick. It is not your fault that you’re in pain. Okay, you did not ask for this. No. So that is the first thing to your listeners. Anytime something happens, did I bring this on myself? No, that’s crazy. Why would I do that? Why would I want to be in pain? Why would I want to have autoimmune, no. So you really have to take the load off yourself. And you know, just give yourself a bit of a break. Things happen. It’s what you do when they happen that counts.

Katie Wrigley  27:35  

I love that. And it’s so easy to commend you for saying, “This time I need to do something different.” You could have in that moment driving by the hospital, you could have said, “Oh, you know what I survived. It was just one doctor, maybe two, there’s probably other ones there”, dismissed those feelings, kept it in your body and had a worse outcome than what actually happened with being dismissed when you’re in the middle of what looked like a heart attack. After you had been through all that other malpractice already. You had a choice in that moment. And you chose to listen to yourself and say, hey, you know what? No, this is not working for me. I’m not wrong, I know something is off. And I’m going to do things differently. Because the chance of them killing me at this hospital is way too high. And there’s no way your reptilian brain is ever going to calm down. If you  set foot in that hospital, again, and be like “We are not safe here.” And throwing up all that evidence to show that you’re not safe. That is something that you’re going to see if you choose to override those messages to a point where it is your detriment where you are not acknowledging your feelings, which is why I wanted to ask like you did go through and of course, you know, you’re sitting here with a smile on your face and nodding and I know clearly you’ve processed out the emotions around that. And it’s also kept with you this desire and this will to help other people get out of similar situations and be able to empower themselves which is just beautiful. What you’ve done with all of this thank you for being you, Magic. Love it.

Magic  29:09  

Thank you. And you know I love the PNEI so much that I’ve thrown myself right into it and written a course. So actually teach other practitioners now, how to deal with PNEI, how to incorporate that into their practice for their clients. Because what I found with my clients was it was such a big part of everything. Yeah, that could no longer be dismissed. We had to dive in.

Katie Wrigley  29:38  

And would you be able to speak to a little bit of what that looks like to focus on the PNEI pathways and how practitioners are integrating this into their practice?

Magic  29:49  

Yeah, so it’s a lot of techniques and tools. So there’s things, obviously like emotional freedom technique. You know, some tapping, essential oil therapy, there’s breathing techniques. There’s future pacing. So getting yourself out of where you feel at the moment to look at what does it look like when I’m no longer in pain? Yes. Because when you’re bogged down with a condition that is really hard to do, because you feel like that’s going to be forever. Yeah, so there’s a lot of techniques and tools that I teach practitioners to do with their clients. And, you know, I do it with my own clients, and I’ve done it on myself, I do it on my children. And, you know, I just love using every sense, every cranial nerve, you know, and really just getting to what is causing this agitation. And how can we calm that down?

Katie Wrigley  30:48  

Yes. And it sounds like there’s a lot of similar principles between PNEI and the framework around that and cognomovement. Cognomovement also has breathing techniques and future pacing that we call  it cognoquantum. It’s a specific parallel, and I love that you, you pose that question, you know, what is it going to look like to not be in pain again? Like, I’ve asked that, like, I have a group that goes with my podcast, the pain changer group. And I asked one day, like, “Without pain, I would…”, and someone’s like, “Oh, my gosh, it’s a run on sentence. There’s so much I would do if I didn’t hurt anymore,” but I was in the same place like, “Oh, who am I if I don’t hurt anymore”, and I actually had a panic attack. When my pain first released because I wasn’t expecting it. I was so doubtful of the whole thing. And that’s, and I’m sure PNEI works, even in the face of doubt. You probably have people going “Yea, right”. And then it’s working right in front of their eyes and then they’re like, “okay, maybe I believe you now.” And that was what happened to me in my first cognomovement session. I’m like, All right, let’s, let’s see what this guy’s got here. It looks good in principle, but math analysis helped. And then poof, like, Okay, what just happened? Which I hear a lot after a session, like, I don’t know what just happened, like, Yeah, I hear that a lot. But it’s, it’s amazing to experience that and start to shift that and get out of your body and go, Hey, you know what, this is who I was before pain, either like that person. I didn’t like that person if you don’t like that person. Okay, who do you want to be? Who will you be without pain? And how interesting is that person going to be? Because now you have this cool story to tell people about how you healed yourself. Same way you are right now.

Magic  32:34  

Exactly. And we do this with any diagnosis, not just pain. But you know, we’ve mentioned autoimmune a couple of times, someone will come along and say I’m a diabetic. No, you’re not. You’re a human being. Who has diabetes. Yes. What is diabetes? It’s a label given to a collection of symptoms, which is driven by a collection of systems that are unhappy. Yes. That is very different from “I’m a diabetic.” Yep. You know, taking on a label, taking on a diagnosis, and making that mean so much for your life, you’re really squashing what’s possible. What’s possible is,  you can get your blood sugars under control, because you treat the root cause of what’s doing that? Yes. Whether it’s pain, whether it’s a diagnosis, no matter what you’re dealing with. That is not you. And the important thing for the listeners today to get if they get nothing else from our conversation is, your name is Betty, or Sawyer, or Jack, or whatever your name is, not your diagnosis. They are two completely separate things.

Katie Wrigley  33:45  

Yes, yes. And thank you for pointing that out. And I hear people say that, “Oh, my pain”. And I used to do that too. And I really watch that now, my anxiety, especially anxiety, ooh, you hold on to that, and it gets bigger in ways you don’t want it to get bigger. You know, and it’s funny because identity does get wrapped up into it. And it gets deeper into our identity when we do what you’re saying, Oh, I’m a diabetic, I have this, I have that. Instead of defining ourselves by “I’m a human being. I’m a man or a woman, I’m non binary. I’m a mother or father or maybe I chose not to have children”, whatever those things are, those are pieces of you. But look at any of those. Do any one of those fully define you? I’m guessing other than human being, which is a very generic description, none of those encompass you as a person. None of them come with me as a person. Would you agree with that, Magic?

Magic  34:50  

100% You know, you are you. You are not what has happened to you. You are not what your body’s dealing with at the moment because you won’t always be dealing with whatever your diagnosis is, or your pain or your anxiety or anything like that. That is not you, you are a person who is going through something at the moment. And that’s really important to make that distinction.

Katie Wrigley  35:16  

Absolutely and especially because you know, and I like to say that fear and pain like to play like quintessential Mean Girls, and those pain spikes are like, Oh, it’s never gonna get better. And when your doctor isn’t saying anything to the contrary, you really start to believe that like, “Okay, I’m facing permanent disability here doc. This is scary.” And they’re like, yeah, it is. Like, whoa, hey, what about No, you’re not? No, you’re not you, you haven’t tried two thirds of the things out there to try. Like you’ve barely even scratched the surface, you’ve tried five different things. There’s 50. But no one’s telling you that. And I’m just pulling random numbers out there. But they don’t necessarily contradict you. And so your fear goes rampant. And you’re like, oh, okay, this really, and I thought I was looking at that forever, because no one gave me any reason to think otherwise. And they were shocked when I went back. And I’m like, I’m good. I don’t need surgery. They’re like, huh, like, and I was expecting an argument, then I didn’t get one. They were just like, wow, okay, well, if you need me, here I am. And my primary care is like, Hold on to your mindset. This is going to help keep you well, now that you found this, but no one disagreed with me when I was being negative. And I was terrified that this was going to be the highest quality of life I got no one disagreed with me. And I know that in those moments, I said in the doctor’s office, like, I’m scared that this is as good as it gets. It’s like, oh, yeah, that’s understandable. Okay, and here’s the part where you tell me something hopeful, anything.

Magic  36:57  

The problem is, they’re not invested in the hope they’re not invested in, you can do better, you can have better, you can be better. They’re invested in your misery is my money. And so keeping you in this state, makes me more money. Yeah, now I’m generalizing. And I don’t want to bring the haters on. But from my experience, being a medical customer, is more important to most doctors than it is for you to be well.

Katie Wrigley  37:31  

And oftentimes, that can be a subconscious pattern that the doctor’s running like, Oh, I’m not a good doctor, unless they keep coming back for more like that can be their own pattern. And so you know, we’ve heard from some really great doctors, and we’ve heard from naturopaths, and functional medicine, doctors who have a different way of doing things, because they didn’t want to get sucked into the medical system that you’re talking about. So I just wanted to add a little bit of color, because it is important to acknowledge that not all of the medical community and in fact, most of what you’d refer to as mainstream or traditional medicine isn’t necessarily in the market of hope, functional medicine, naturopath, holistic, whole, those type of practitioners tend to be into the game of hope and building confidence, and allowing you to empower your own ability to heal. It’s a very different wheelhouse than what Magic is talking about with the doctors. And if at any point just to add something, If at any point, you feel like your doctor is dismissing you, don’t put up with that shit. Go find someone else. Please

Magic  38:41  

Exactly what I was about to say, yeah, you have options, you have rights, you have autonomy of your own body. And I truly believe that, if you are hearing the “well, this is the way it is” none the doctor and I know what’s best. And you get the feeling that you’re going to be an eternal medical customer. Look for some of us who are not like that. Look for some of us who are invested in you being well, yes. Yes, that is just so important. You have every right to be well, yes. Look for the team that supports that.

Katie Wrigley  39:22  

I love that and I just want to repeat it: you have the right to be well. Look for the team that supports that. That is so beautifully said, Magic. I love that. As you think about the different clients that you work with, in my own work, I come across people who have some limiting beliefs that can sometimes get in the way of this. What can feel like miraculous healing in those moments. Do you run into that yourself and what would you say is one of the most common limiting beliefs that you see that that is getting in someone’s way

Magic  40:00  

Limiting beliefs that my clients have is often “well, this is the way it is, maybe I deserve this.” Or that’s a hard one. And again, yeah, I have my own limiting belief. I’m constantly studying and upgrading my knowledge. And you know, I get a new client intake, and I have a moment of what if I don’t know what to do? Even I’ve got all the resources at my fingertips, I still have that moment. Because that stems from when I was unwell. What if I don’t know what my next step is? So that’s something that’s always there, a program and meta program going on. And clients have that, too. So it’s important as a practitioner to know, you can have that, as long as you’re aware of it. Yes. And you don’t let that belief limit you. You know, you just go well, that’s there. I acknowledge it. Thanks for the reminder of that. But I’m not taking it today. Because I have to tell myself that, but also recognize that new clients, they come in, I’ve tried everything, nothing’s working, this won’t work either. Because really, they feel like they’ve been everywhere around the world to get an answer. So when you finally give them an answer, don’t get crossed with him if they can’t hear it straightaway. And I find this with a lot of my new clients is, you know, they come out of the “doctor says” mentality to see me. And then they’ll say, oh, that sounds really good. I think I’ll ask my doctor about it. And I have to say, Well, you could do that. But they’ll probably sit there blankly or make something up, because they don’t know this. First of all, they don’t have time to learn it. Second of all, if they knew it and taught it to you, you wouldn’t be coming back to them. And you know, thirdly, there’s a lot of ego involved. Yes, Put that white coat on and put “Dr” in front of your name. There’s a lot of ego involved.

Katie Wrigley  42:00  

Yes, there is.

Magic  42:01  

So you have to see as the client, your limiting beliefs, you have to acknowledge them. And you have to go okay, that’s how I feel about a certain something, cool. That’s not the way it is. That’s how I feel at the moment. Yep.

Katie Wrigley  42:20  

I love that. That’s a great approach, you know, and I started to read Tony, I listen to Tony Robbins, book, lifeforce. And one of the stats he mentioned in there, you know, and I want to give a nod to doctors, they’ve gone through a hell of a lot of school, like they’ve earned that ego. And the ego is not always a bad thing. But when it turns into arrogance, and they’re so sure, without hearing you that they’re right, that’s when it’s time to find a different doctor who has a healthier ego. But one of the things, one of the stats that just blew my mind that doctors are dealing with right now, is because of the rate of technology, any new information is only relevant for 75 days. And this was months ago that I heard this. So who knows how many days it’s relevant for now, because things are continuing to move at lightning fast speeds that we’ve never seen before. And so we’re evolving constantly. And I love your share of vulnerability of like, what if I don’t have the answer? I struggle with that too. And in the moment, I do something similar, like, okay, that’s there like, Well, what do I know? Well, I know my system, do I trust my system, I trust my system. All I need to know is how to work the system with what I’ve been trained to look at. And it works only every time to varying degrees, but it works only every time. The only times it doesn’t work is when someone can’t focus on something in their body for one reason or another. Their minds elsewhere, their pain is too high to get out. Like, there was a few different places, but even then, they come back later. And like, you know, I still got something out of there. Yeah, I really couldn’t get it today. And I know I couldn’t get it. But it’s much to your point, you know, it’s seeing that belief, okay, that’s limiting me. And I’m going to choose not to let it limit me today. And same thing with pain to like you sometimes we try something. And like, maybe we try to exercise again. And then we are laid out for the next five days because we hurt so bad. We may have just taught ourselves that exercise is scary. And so the next time you try to do it, you’re like, oh, I don’t know about that. Then you’re like, Okay, you know what, maybe I just did it too much. Maybe I can adjust it and exercise isn’t scary. But you can take that limiting belief and choose to let it continue to limit you or you can say alright, I see it. How do I get around it? Just like you said. So what would you say your greatest success case is to date and what about it made it what you would think is your greatest success?

Magic  45:01  

Wow. Okay, so I had a young girl come to me. Say three years ago maybe. And she had the current Epstein Barr Virus. And, you know, for all your listeners, Epstein, that is one of the most prolific viral pathogens that there are in the world. Over 90% of the population have had it. Wow. So it’s known as mononucleosis, glandular fever, Epstein Barr. And it’s quite debilitating. And in fact, it’s a string pillar of many chronic conditions. So she came to me, she actually had it current. So she got a double positive on a blood test. Normally, people come and they’ve got like, positive negative, which means they’ve had it in the past, and they’ve got antibodies to it, but it’s still there. And under stress, it’s one of those viruses that pops up. So she had it currently, and she couldn’t even walk from her bed to the bathroom. And she was 16 or 17. I can’t quite remember. And, you know, she was really bad. She couldn’t go to school. Now, she loved rowing, competitive rowing, and in fact, very, very good at it. But she couldn’t get up for practice. She couldn’t be in the boat, she couldn’t do anything. So with my protocols, we went through all of that. And I am happy to say that last year, her mother sent me photos of her in the national team, and they won several races. And you know, they were getting up at four in the morning to be somewhere at five in the morning to get on the water to row. And this girl is now doing her final year of high school. And she’s well and, you know, great success story. And I’m so proud of the work that she put in because she could have said, you know, as a young girl as a teen, this is my life now. But she didn’t. Wow. And you know, she I kept saying to her, what is it that you love? I love rowing. Okay, what will it look like when you’re back in the boat? And it started with I’ll never be back in the boat. Well, I feel like this weekend, but you’re not going to fill up this forever. So you know, I’m just so proud of this girl. She’s a brilliant rower and I can’t wait to see her. You know, she could go as far as the Olympics. She’s, she’s very, very good. And I just can’t wait to see what she can do with her life.

Katie Wrigley  47:42  

That is so amazing. And I love hearing that that’s definitely a story of hope and optimism. And again, someone choosing here’s my diagnosis. I’m not accepting what the prognosis is, we’re going to find a different one. And fighting against her limiting beliefs. And that’s awesome. Sue’s national team senior in high school. Yep. Whole world at her feet. And was told three years ago that this is it. That was not it. Not even a little bit.

Magic  48:19  

No, not at all. And you know, she’s a great girl. And she truly deserves everything she makes happen in her life because she made this happen in her life.

Katie Wrigley  48:28  

I love that. That is just awesome. Thank you for sharing that story. I can see why that one came to mind. That’s just so cool. I’m glad you shared that.This has been so great. I actually want to do a future episode, really like diving in. Maybe you can come back and join me again on how to be your own health advocate. 

Magic: 49:00 

Oh, I would love to

Katie 49:02

And really teach people, and I talked to the functional medicine doctor about this to like and we touched on it but I think you really speak in very plain English very clear. You do not have to accept what the doctors are saying to you when something inside is saying hey, this doesn’t feel right, listen to it. Get a second opinion. The worst thing that happens is they back up the first doctor so you get a third opinion. Follow magic and her Nope, I don’t accept this and she continued to go and she found a doctor that worked with her. She got the diagnosis she needed. Unfortunately, that surgeon didn’t do a good job, left you with more but you got the cancer, the fatal thing out of your body.

Magic  49:39  

Totally but what I learned through that, and this is I guess what I want to leave your listeners with is the cancer was just a thing. What caused it? So after all this happened, you know, after the gaslighting, the dismissed, the malpractice, after the cancer was put into remission, I’m like “Okay but why did that happen?” So really, you know, for the listeners, look at the root cause. And this is what my practitioners do, and holistic Natural Health Australia, we give you a 17 page intake form, how we want to know everything, because we need to look for the root cause. So for me, what was the root cause of my cancer? Well, it was an immune reaction. So what was triggering that immune reaction? So there was a lot going on. But you know, look at the root cause and look at the signs and the symptoms don’t chase the symptoms. But definitely look at what they’re saying. Because their messages, and if you don’t get the full, you know, history of messages, you’re going to miss something. Yeah, that is super important.

Katie Wrigley  50:53  

It is so important. Incredibly, so and when do they know they’re at the root? That may sound like a dumb question, but some people are like, Oh, it’s our immune response. Okay. You’re not at the root, if it’s an immune response. So how do they know when they got to the root?

Magic  51:10  

Yeah, well, through an intake, we tell you what the root is, you know, we don’t send you off for heaps of testing. There’s no point. Good, yes. 17 pages of questions, tells us what it is. And so by the end of your session, which is called a root cause analysis, and it’s complimentary, you will actually have some answers. What was the start? So for me, recently, I had a client coming to me with hair loss, as she wanted to address the hair loss. At the end of it, she knew which immune type she was, which of the five and maybe we can talk about that another time. You know, what was going on which pathogens were pulling strings? The hair loss was a symptom. The root cause? Was her immune type being stuck. It was some pathogens, you know, playing, wreaking havoc in her body. One of them being LPS, the bacteria, lipopolysaccharide. So that was the root cause. So we treat that, guess what? Her hair’s growing back.

Katie Wrigley  52:16  

Yaaay! And most people she probably heard from multiple doctors. “Oh, you’re stressed? Oh, it’s hormones. Oh, it’s fine. Or it was from COVID. It’ll grow back”. Yeah. And you found something completely different.

Magic  52:31  

Completely different. We treated that and she said, Oh, well, now I’m not constipated anymore. Guess what, LPS causes that?

Katie Wrigley  52:40  

You know, I think I may want to look into it. I don’t think there’s anything like, quote unquote, wrong with me. And I don’t have pain anymore. But I had hair loss. That’s why I have short hair now. And I started to take some natural supplements to activate your body. No more symptoms. Also got rid of constipation another symptom. I never got into the root of those. But now I’m like, I want to understand what was causing those even though they’re no longer here. What was that about? Because I haven’t, I just haven’t gotten to them yet. I had a laundry list of other stuff that was much more pressing than my inability, my former inability to poop and my hair falling out which I had a boatload of hair to begin with. So I had plenty. They just were not my priorities. But wow, yeah, I’m, it’s probably going to be a minute before I have space, but I’m totally going to find some place. Like your so where can people find you magic? And do you do anything remotely? Or you specific to Australia? There’s no wrong answer. You just want to know.

Magic  53:44  

We do everything remotely now. So with the pandemic, we actually closed our clinics in Melbourne, Australia, and went fully remote. So everything is on Zoom. So we can treat all around the world, which is great. Yeah. And, you know, I’m not going to lie here, I have all my books over on my left hand side. So if I can’t think of the answer to my brain, I have all my materials here. So it works for me. Yeah, so you can find us at our website, which is www.wholisticnaturalhealth.com.au. And that’s wholistic with a W. So we treat with wholeism. Don’t forget the AU on the end, because we are based in Australia. And on our website, there’s a services page, and you can hit that and there’s a book now button, you’re looking for a root cause analysis. So when we see that appointment pop up on our calendars, we send you a consultation form, that is the 17 pages basically, then on the root cause analysis call. We go through all of that, and we asked you even more questions. And then by the end of that call, we give you some answers. And it’s as simple as that. You can choose to work with us. Maybe it is the right time, maybe it’s not. But at least we give you some answers and some options. Now on our website, you’ll also find the podcast and magical life health, wealth and weight loss. You’ll find our blogs, lots of articles, other podcasts like this one that we’ve been on, and just all sorts of amazing stuff. The hard part of pivoting for us to remote was doing the lymphatic stuff because that’s a hands on thing. So now we can refer you to our lymphatic network. If you are in Australia, sometimes we can do some hands on. But we can also teach you via zoom, how to do it for yourself. So there’s a lot going on there. But look, first things first, jump onto the website, www.wholisticnaturalhealth.com.au.

Katie Wrigley  56:00  

Got it and I will put that in the show notes. So again, it is wholisticnaturalhealth.com.au. She is in Australia. I am so psyched that you guys do everything remotely. I am definitely again, I don’t think there’s anything quote unquote wrong with me or off right now. I’m feeling amazing. And I really want to walk through this experience just to be able to speak to it. And I would love to have you come back on the show again, another time, Magic. This has been awesome. I’ve learned so much. And I love the perspective that you take to approach health care and wellness care, because it’s really what we want, right is to be well.

Magic  56:47  

Totally and you have the right to be well don’t forget that.

Katie Wrigley  56:50  

Yes, you have the right to be well and in case you needed our permission we give you permission to be well. Absolutely. Thank you again for joining me today, Magic. This has been very awesome. Thank you again, 

Magic  57:05  

Thank you so much for having me. It’s been great! 

Katie Wrigley  57:09  

Okay, so, how did you like hearing from Magic? Next week, I have the honor of another doctor joining me to talk about pain from a neurological perspective. You guys seeing the links between neurology and pain yet? I cannot wait for this conversation. I hope you’re gonna come back again next week and join me.

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