Episode 36.5: Happiness for [the Holidays] Any Day


In this episode, you will learn:

  • Cognomovement helps you get to the core of the issue/pain you’re wanting to release without necessarily explaining what happened

  • Stress is a feeling in the body. Due to society, the world we live in, and how we were conditioned, if our nervous system has not been relieved and if we are not feeling some kind of stress, we will go seek stress elsewhere. 

  • You may experience cogno-amnesia, which means you may or may not remember what your session was even about after it has been cleared

  • All traumas are experienced the same. Someone calling you a name in grade school can be just as daunting to the subconscious as getting in a car accident.

Episode 36.5: Accessing the Subconscious Mind

Katie Wrigley  0:03  

Welcome back. This is a special bonus episode of the pain changer podcast. If there was a tool that was capable of transforming your life, would that be of interest to you? Yeah. And what is the first thing you would want to change? You probably won’t be surprised that the first thing I wanted to change when I first met today’s guest was my back pain. Little did I know the ripple effect of transformation that started from my first session with my amazing guests who are joining me today. And to be honest, had I known, I probably would have asked to have the session sooner than I did. These two humans create and experience miracles every day, and I am lucky enough to get to work with them closely. Stick around. I’m going to introduce them to you right after this. Marathon runner, martial artist, helicopter pilot and former adrenaline junkie turned spiritual teacher, Bill McKenna has pioneered a groundbreaking method for creating massive change, shifting perspective and raising consciousness, and it all centers around a brightly colored ball. Bill McKenna is the author of The Only Lesson and the founder of the cognomovement systems. During his own life changing spiritual awakening, Bill studied with a number of master teachers to learn the secrets of self discovery and the ability to create miraculous change in his life and in the lives of others. Bill now shares those secrets with his students in his renowned secret to the Master series. Liz Larson is the CO creator of the cognomovement system and author of Suffering is Optional and the Tiny Book of Big Manifesting. In addition, Liz is a trainer, coach, speaker, and designer of the cognomovement curriculum. Liz has made it her mission to keep pushing the boundaries of possibilities in consciousness, awareness, self development, and wellness. She is an expert at turning possibilities into technologies that can be used to create fast and lasting change. As a master certified Neuro Linguistic Programming practitioner, Liz has taken the art of combining strategies that work to a whole new level. She has pioneered modalities that combine esoteric and spiritual studies with the scientific and practical to facilitate significant change in the way the brain, mind, body and spirit function as a whole. Liz became an avid student of the brain and its ability to change after devastating diagnosis of brain illnesses and both of her parents. Welcome to the Pain Changer Podcast Bill and Liz! I am so honored to have you both as my guests today. I’m so thrilled that you’re here with me. You have changed my life in more ways than I can even count. In fact, because of cognoamnesia, I do forget sometimes. You’ve been friends, you’ve been mentors, and you’re part of my extended family now, and I have eternal gratitude to both of you for all that you’ve taught me and all that you’ve helped me to release, so that I could finally be pain free and thriving. Thank you so much for joining me today.

Liz Larson  3:27  

Well, we couldn’t be happier to be here, Katie. And we’re so happy to know you as well. Katie Wrigley, I mean, what can we say she’s one of our most amazing practitioners, the things she’s created for herself, and that she’s creating for other practitioners for us. We’re honored to have you be a part of our family and really honored to be here today, Bill.

Bill McKenna  3:48  

Oh, my gosh, from the moment we got to meet you. It’s been an amazing ride with you, Katie. And, you know, there’s one thing to just talk about, you know, change. And there’s another thing to actually experience the miraculous in your own physical body, and to have an understanding through the actual physical experience, the emotional experience, the energetic experience of the transformation, which you’ve gone through. And it’s been a joy for Liz and myself to just witness it. And to see you now out there helping others.

Katie Wrigley  4:40  

Oh, thank you both. It wouldn’t have been possible without you. So I’m wondering if you’d be willing to kind of pull the covers back on cognomovement and what is really happening under the surface there? What are we actually affecting with cognomovement?

Liz Larson  4:57  

Well, I’ll start really at its core, cognomovement affects our automated responses. What I mean is, you know, when someone says something, we don’t like that pit in the gut of your stomach, you know, when your bank account is too low, that pain in your head or your low back, that you get. That automated response, when you walk in the door, and your spouse hasn’t picked up their socks off the floor, and you want to murder their face, we’re talking about those automatic things that are running really 95% of our lives. And a whole lot of them are things we don’t really want, they keep us lazy, they keep us suffering, they keep us from going for the things in our life that we want. They’re just something that sometimes we can’t even put our finger on. It’s just the way we feel. And it’s stopping us. And it interferes with our relationships, work, money, everything, body, like you experience, Katie. You know, it interfered with the way your body was working, and keeping you from the life you wanted. So really, we address the thing that runs between the brain and the body along the power lines, your nerves, that create those automated responses. And we will often refer to that system as your subconscious. That’s something people have heard a lot that we don’t have control over and it’s a big mystery. The thing we created, Bill and I together, cognomovement addresses that accesses it, and allows you to really change that automated response. What more would you say, Bill?

Bill McKenna  6:41  

Well, um, you know, just further expanding on what you had said, you know, the subconscious. I didn’t know really where that was, or what that was, you know, I had heard through all the studying that the subconscious controls 95% of what is going on in our lives. And I was like, Well, okay, I believe it, because everybody that was in development was saying it, you know, and I’d seen that people’s lives, they seem to go in certain patterns. But one of the things that we have discovered is that the subconscious actually exploits this physical body. And how it does that is it gives us a particular feeling. So we have an automatic response, this automatic response to whatever that Liz was just talking about the dirty socks on the floor, or, you know, you name it, right. You don’t choose to feel bad. When was the last time that you chose to feel angry, chose to feel sad, chose to feel anxious, Nobody chooses that. It’s an automatic reaction. That is our subconscious or as Liz Larson says, it’s our nervous system. It’s actually creating this feeling. And so what we do, as Liz was saying, is we change that feeling in the body. The body is actually the ruler of the mind, we think thoughts equal to the feeling that’s in the body. So when that changes, and imagine feeling really good, you have all different thoughts and all new possibilities in your life. And this is more than just, you know, your meridians are talking right? It’s actually physically evident.

Katie Wrigley  9:17  

I agree. It is. I don’t even look like the same person I was two years ago, before I had my first cognomovement session with you. Now it’s been over two years since I’ve been here. And yeah, you’re right. It is palpable, it is noticeable. It is tangible change. So with those patterns that Liz was talking about earlier, and either one of you can answer this one as well. So you had mentioned if feeling good, how likely is it that someone who is triggered as much as what Liz was outlining is actually feeling good on a day to day basis. If they’re getting that triggered that much. Is feeling good, something that’s available to them?

Liz Larson  10:01  

No, you know, I would say most people don’t actually have access to feeling good, they don’t have access to joy, they don’t have access to sweet, you know, they don’t have access to bliss or any of those are higher, because their body is keeping them in a state of kind of agitation. And it’s actually, from the perspective of the body, it’s a good thing. Because it’s trying to keep you aware of all the lions that might be jumping out and bitin’ ya in the butt. So that’s the nervous systems role, threat assessment, what’s the problem and what’s not. So if you’re constantly triggered, you’re agitated, you’re frustrated, you’re anxious, like Bill said, none of that feels great. And you don’t really have access, even though we all say we want to feel happy. Most of the time, we’re so concentrated on the problems in our life, that all we can do is feel that. And that’s really what the nervous system uses to keep us focused on it. 

Katie Wrigley  11:04  

Hmm. So what I think I hear you saying is the nervous system is hardwired not at all for pleasure, it’s hardwired to seek out danger and things that are going to upset us. Did I hear that, right?

Liz Larson 11:16  

Yeah, I mean, actually, they say that we seek pleasure. But the truth is, we seek safety, and security, Safe and alive, safe and alive. And then pleasure is kind of that thing on the side, that we get to experience for about five seconds, before we start worrying about something else. And that’s that function of the automated response. The body’s like, wait a minute, we know that felt good over there. But pretty much you need to pay attention to that lion on your butt right now. And the lions for us are just everyday life. So without a way to shift that, to turn that down and tell the body “Okay, enough of that already have had enough of you”. We just continue to stay in it. We don’t really know how to find and stay in joy.

Katie Wrigley  12:02  

That makes a lot of sense. Bill, is there anything you wanted to add to what Liz is already mentioned there?

Bill McKenna  12:08  

You know, as Liz says, we’re hardwired for this neurologically. And chemically, when when we have the, the momentary and say momentary, like, go out and party, right? That is that relief. Oh, my God for a couple minutes, I can, you know, drink myself into a stupor. And I feel some relief from all of that worry. It’s like, oh, god, yeah, things are okay, you know, just for a minute, right. And then, you know, wake up the next day, and it’s like, back to the Orient, you know, the rent is due at the end of the month, or whatever be the case. You know, what, whatever flavor that we choose to focus our particular worry on, you’ll often see people with a fear, Liz Larson has a great story about this, a fear of a diagnosis of somebody being afraid of like, I think I have cancer, and then they find out that they don’t have cancer. It’s like, Oh, my God, I’m so happy. Oh, I don’t have cancer, and then, it doesn’t take long. Just watch. How long is it? Before that amygdala, that nervous system takes over and says, “Oh, you got to be afraid of this now”. I knew a woman who had three miscarriages. Three, three miscarriages and then there’s a threshold of a certain amount of months you know, that it would happen before and then if you get beyond that threshold, you’re good, right? Where the heartbeats and that sort of thing. And there was a tremendous amount of fear going into her appointment. Right. And, there the appointment happens. And the heartbeat is there. The doctor is like, this is a strong beat. You know, you ain’t got no problem with this one here. This is good. Right? Over the threshold. She did not get to the parking lot. There was joy in the room. But in between the parking lot, and the office, that’s how long it took to go right into a different fear. It was not her fault. She didn’t know it’s in her nervous system that it’s just going to go and it’s going to scan, scan, scan, scan, scan. What happens is, as a human, like Liz was saying, you know, we just look, our body wants to keep us safe. That’s its job. So we scan the horizon for the threat.

Liz Larson  15:28  

You know, you guys, think about this, that this threat assessment thing can even become our pleasure. Think about people who are on a vacation, having a good time, they’re there with family, but dang it if they don’t start a fight with their spouse, or their sister, I mean, there’s got to be drama, they can’t just relax. Or the people like the two of you, who like to jump out of a perfectly good airplane, scare the crap out of themselves for fun. If this is why we always say, oh, you know, we want we just want peace. I just want world peace. And no, you don’t. You really don’t. This is why we watch these shows where it’s shoot them up and everybody’s dying. Or, you know, like my daughter was just watching the whole Dahmer series. I’m like, Why? Why would you want to watch this? It’s horrifying, right? We do this, we read novels where the worst things happen. And we’re turning the page because even if there’s nothing bad going on, if we still have the hook for those eyes, we want to fire that trigger. We want to fire that fight or flight system. Otherwise, we kind of get bored. So it takes some doing to start on hooking those eyes, you know, the old hook in the eyes picture the back of a wedding dress, one at a time unhooking relieving the part of the body that needs to be constantly freaked out. And pretty soon what happens is, you don’t have the hook for the eye anymore. And now you can actually enjoy pleasurable things, you actually find yourself seeking them. You can sit for an afternoon with a friend, talk for four hours, the time will go by, and you’re not panicked that you have to be somewhere, or what’s going on in the bank account, or who’s talking behind your back right? None of that. You just sit and enjoy. So you can become more and more present, and more and more acclimated to the beauty that is around you all the time. We’ve been seeing this really recently that most people can’t even see the good that’s around them. They might have an amazing life and they’re sitting in our office telling us you know what shit is going on. They can’t see it. But when they leave, then they can. All of a sudden life looks different. 

Katie Wrigley  18:11  

That is just beautiful. Please, Bill.

Bill McKenna  18:13  

Well, it’s an amazing thing. You know, and I think everybody is listening to this out there. You know, people that are wealthy and stressed out, right? And they can be in a position where they have a lot of money, but they’re still not happy or not content, right. And other people might not have much and that have found their way there. But it’s really when you boil it down, it is a feeling in the body. And where we’re, as Liz says, so attracted to this, that if it’s not in our lives, we will go seek it out elsewhere. If you look at every movie you’ve ever been to, right, you probably have watched quite a few movies. They all have one thing in common. Every movie. Something goes wrong.

Katie Wrigley  19:31  

Right? Even Disney movies!

Bill McKenna  19:33  

Something goes wrong. We want that fear and like ”No, no, oh boy. It’s a big problem, big problem”. So we’re constantly in that process. But it doesn’t have to be that way and because our thoughts create, right, if we can exit this, if we can relieve the nervous system, where as Liz Larson says, we open the pathway, we open the doorway to joy what would happen?

Katie Wrigley  20:16  

So what have you seen happen when you’ve unhooked it? What have you guys seen so far since you created cognomovement? What kind of miracles have you guys seen?

Liz Larson  20:28  

I’ll tell you a story from one of our most recent seminars, the Cogno conscious seminar, which you’ve been to Katie many times, and yep. So this is kind of a funny one. So I was working with one of the gals. So during the seminar, if somebody needs a little extra help, one of us will jump in. So it was my turn, I jumped in. And she had this terrible relationship with her mother, just awful. And she’s saying to me, she’s a devil, she’s just the devil, she wants to kill me. She wants me dead, literally. And I don’t know anything about her story. As cognomovement practitioners, we don’t get involved. We just kind of do what’s called backtracking. We sort of repeat back to the person and let the nervous system autocorrect. Side note, cognomovement helps the nervous system correct itself. Just so everybody’s aware of that. So we’re doing the work. And she’s saying that the devil, she’s the devil, she’s going to kill me. She’s gonna kill me. And in about five minutes, we’re working this through her nervous system, letting her nervous system feel what it does, feeling that her mom wants to murder her, you know, in her shoes right there as much as she does. And in about five minutes she said, Oh, you know what? Actually, my mom adores me. My mom actually really, really loves me. I think it was me who was pushing back against her.

Katie Wrigley  21:59  


Liz Larson  22:01  

Yeah. Here’s the funny part. At the end of it, I said, “Okay. So when you came in, you said, you know, your mom was the devil. She wanted to kill you.” And she looked at me with the most blank look. He’d forgotten she even said it. That’s how much it disconnected the hook from the eye. But the better part of the story is she went home. She shares some property with her mother. She’s in contact with her all the time. And she said for the first time they sat down, had coffee, chit chatted like girlfriends. She said all the old things that triggered her they just weren’t there was like her mom was magically transformed. But who was transformed? It was this woman who now no longer had a hook for all the triggers. But did have a hook for “You know what, my mom really loves me”. And for the first time, she’s in her 50s, she and her mom are really having and enjoying a lovely relationship.

Katie Wrigley  23:02  

Awe. That’s awesome! I love hearing stories like that.

Liz Larson  23:07  

Yeah, so good. What do you got Bill? 

Bill McKenna  23:10  

Oh, there was a, there’s kind of an amazing story that started with a tragedy, there was a family. And there’s a young girl who got a cup of boiling, you know, hot water, and it spilled down her chest. Now this girl was kind of a preteen. And it burned her severely from the chest all the way down to the belly button. And, you know, rushed off to the intensive care unit and, you know, this is extremely painful. I don’t know if you know, on the scale of pain, this is very, very high to have severe burns, hopefully over a large percentage of the body like this was and anyway, the mother and the father got through the entire process. And the daughter, you know, comes home after a few days. And the husband, when they got back home was like, “hey, you know what, I’m going to take off, I’ve got a trip, I’ve got to go see some family.” And the wife was like “You son of a….”. You know, “I’m here with her and we’ve got a real severe situation” And so this happened and she really resented him for that, and held onto that with an ironclad grip for years. And was very, very angry and was considering a divorce. And we ended up working on this, this, you know, the anger related to this and the resentment. And the most amazing thing happened during the middle of the session. In a particular way that we do the exercise, which forces the entire neurological system to see more reality, literally see more of what they didn’t see before. When we did this process with the physical body, she ended up seeing that, which she completely did not remember. I guess she remembered it but didn’t didn’t pay any attention to. She was outside of the ICU, when the child was getting her skin scrubbed, as it turns out, when you have one of these type of burns, they’re going to have to take the skin off. Right. And so they, they, they basically rub it off with no anesthetic. You know, she’s getting robbed, now extraordinarily painful. The mother was outside throwing up, she could not be in the room, the husband was there. And he handled the difficult part of this, you know, he was able to be the rock to be there in the most difficult of circumstances. You know, if you’re a parent, if you’re listening to this, you would be like, one million times put me on the table and burn me versus having that happen to my daughter, you know, any day of the week, any day of the week, I will take that pain, but I won’t let her have that. Right. So, so but he did it, he was able to be there in the room, although all this happened and be supportive. And there, during this process, it literally brought myself as well to tears. It was the energetic release. I mean, I felt it, like a wave went through me and she started crying. And it was like, Oh my God, you know, I can feel the release. And she was like, “Oh my God. I see. It was him. He took the hardest part. And I had to look after for more time, but it wasn’t anywhere near as hard as what he had to do. And he couldn’t express himself that when we got home, he couldn’t take it. And he had to leave. So he left for a day to recoup himself. And then he came back and, and you know, he’s a good husband and cares about everybody and loves all the family. He’s not a bad person like I thought.” So bringing the family back together, you know, and that is a really kind of a big deal. So opening the doorway to love.

Katie Wrigley  29:05  

Oh, you’re making me cry with that story. Just imagine someone in that much pain and the poor parents watching that like oh my gosh. I legit have tears over here. I need a tissue. FIrst time crying on my podcast.

Bill McKenna  29:19  

I know I know. Well, I seriously you know, like, I can’t think too close to it. I can’t like go into the story because I start crying too. I mean, it’s like *fake sobbing sounds* It’s a little bit much. I mean I’m not kidding when I said I felt, literally it was like if you’ve ever felt a sonic boom, you know when there’s right where that wave goes through you. Yep. Literally, it was physically like a sonic boom, when that happened. A wave came through me. And it just made me cry. I mean, it was like, “Whoa, holy cow”. So yeah, yeah, it’s, anyway. You can see why there’s so much joy in doing this work. And being able to be part of that type of release and that type of growth. And that type of new perspective, me and Liz, we talk every day about just how great it is and to get to be part of it and get to experience this. And then the joy of also having people like yourself, Katie in all these, the year the force multiplier, you’re going out there helping people all day. And so it’s anyway this work is definitely a joy.

Katie Wrigley  31:06  

It is. It’s the most fulfilling thing I’ve ever been able to do. And it’s your right. Anytime you see that transition, it’s phenomenal. You know, and it’s the person doing it, you know, we’re holding the space, we’re helping to speak to the neurology, to ask the question, so that much to Liz’s point, the neurology is fixing itself, it’s writing itself.

Liz Larson  31:34  

Can I add something, Katie? Just piggybacking actually, on what Bill was talking about, and these big traumas and in that moment, your body will receive that trauma as an injury, not just the person who’s injured. But the dad who’s experiencing it, the mom who’s experienced it. And Bill’s client really was experiencing her own trauma. And her body was using her husband to blame. You know, she couldn’t blame it on the child, obviously, so the husband was the safest place for the nervous system to say you’re the threat. And this is what our body does on every trauma. But the most interesting thing to know is, is that our bodies record traumas for things that you would not say is a trauma. Like, I didn’t get a popsicle when I was four but my sister did. You know, Billy Joe stuck his tongue out at me at church when I was wearing my prettiest dress, you know, the body will actually start a pattern of threat assessment right there. And then attach things to it that seem similar. So throughout all of life, it’ll attach things to that to prove, yes, this is a threat. Yes, this is a threat, make it thicker. Then by the time you get to the point of Bill’s client or the client that I was talking about, the trauma is giant, it’s insurmountable. It’s like Mount Everest, even though in both cases, it wasn’t even true. It wasn’t accurate. You know, the facts were not the facts that that person perceived, it was completely the opposite. So we talk about this, it’s not just what’s happening right now. Usually, our trauma, the thing that’s bothering us, is something that started as an artifact way back in our life somewhere. It’s like, you know, the pea, and the Princess, you know, that story? Yeah, where she could feel the pea all the way through the mattresses, it’s just like that. The cool thing is that when you delete the pattern from the nervous system, because it all feels the same, you know, the boy sticking his tongue out when I’m in my prettiest dress at church. And this trauma that happened now, you know, in the emergency room, or the car that just hit me, they all strangely feel the same. They have the same sensation in the body. And it’s this weird sensation that starts to feel like that’s who we are. That’s us. So when we get in there, because they all feel the same, we can collapse them all at once. And Bill loves this when I say it, but the truth is when it is collapsed and the feeling is gone, the mind doesn’t give a crap about it anymore. And it simply forgets. It’s like the situation never happened in the first place. You just never think about it again. Because there’s no threat to assess anymore. There’s nothing to keep you safe from. So you’re free from not only the trauma right now, but probably 50 things going back in time as well. So it’s a great system, a system that kind of keeps us locked as well, but also an easy system to hack and delete the file.

Katie Wrigley  34:58  

I like that, the hacking in and deleting. And it’s true you do get cogno amnesia like I’ve had whole sessions with Coral Simpson. Actually I text her after a session, I’m like, “what did we work on? I don’t even remember. I know it was a good session. But what did we work on?” Like, I had no idea. None. None. She’s like, “Oh, we worked on this.” and I’m like, “Oh, yeah, that wasn’t my guess. Hmm. Well, it did a lot. Thanks!”.

Liz Larson  35:29  

It could be the worst problem in your life even or the worst, perceived problem in your life. And most people do not love this. You can never tell somebody, you know, that thing you walked in the door with? Yeah, it’s probably not real. But it is real to them. The circumstances feel very real. It’s only when the nervous system is freed from assessing it as a threat, do you actually get to use your real logical mind? To see it from a new perspective, to see the truth about all the players involved, and maybe what the real meaning is, rather than whatever the threat that your mind made, or your physical body, your nervous system made up around it.

Bill McKenna  36:14  

So what Liz is, you know, bringing forward to validate all of this in your own lives, right? Because it almost seems like, oh, my gosh, what Liz is saying is, if that’s true, that would be Wow, man, you know. Well, all of us, right? If you look at your friends, you look at your friends out there. And you’ve seen where your friends like, for some reason, misinterpret stuff, you know, you’ve got to, you’ve got a friend, that everybody’s got one, that they go to the restaurant with you. And you know, already, there’s gonna be a problem. “Oh, my God, where did you see me?”, “Oh my God, I asked for my eggs to be over easy.” And they’re going to be the ones that came scrambled, you know, there’s going to be a problem, there’s going to be a problem. And you see it, that they do this over and over and over and over. We humans, look for the thing external to us, that’s going to validate that “I’m correct to have this feeling”, right? I’ve got a feeling. “Ah-ha! I’m correct”. And we validate, we utilize people and twist things around in order to validate that feeling. So what Liz is, another way to look at this is that Liz’s saying you’re absent that feeling after a cognomovement session. If you’re absent the feeling, then the gateway or the doorway to other possibilities is open. You can interpret things differently. Imagine that, I know that it’s really easy to see, you know that the scrambled egg example in your friends. Here’s the painful truth and it’s a painful truth about me, and everybody else… We’re all doing it. All of us are doing it. You know, we create these stories and then we look for the proof. Yeah, but there’s a better way.

Katie Wrigley  38:41  

I agree. And, you know, part of what I’m hearing and all this discussion is a massive perspective shift. And what I’ve mentioned, like a shift in perspective, people are like, “Yeah, and?” but your story with the girl that got burned and her parents, that was a perspective shift. The wife was thinking the father/the husband wasn’t showing up when she needed him the most. And it was the opposite. He had been the strong one in the heart of it, to let her unravel for a moment. And then she essentially let him unravel unbeknownst to her. And she was the strong one. They took turns being the strong one. Yeah. But it went from “He’s not there for me” to “Wow, we’re really partners in this and we supported each other and our daughter”. That’s a perspective shift. That’s massive.

Liz Larson  39:39  

Well, Katie, let’s hear one from you. Because you have had some massive perspective shifts yourself. When we met you, it was all about surgeries and doctors and really being kind of a cripple for the rest of your life. That was the perspective and then what happened?

Katie Wrigley  39:57  

And then none of that’s true. So it started with a focus around financial scarcity. That was my first session with Bill. And some weird stuff happened that night which needed to happen, which was really great. And I also broke through my back pain. And then I had a massive panic attack. As you had said, we make it ours. You know, when it’s a rainy day, we don’t think we’re the rain. We’re not the reason that it’s raining. But we’ll take on, I heard someone else say that recently, this thought it was so brilliant, but we take on these other emotions that may not be ours. Or we make them bigger. And it took a deep dive into “What was pain giving me?” that still sounds so warped, but what was it giving me that was keeping me there? And once I saw that, though, then I’m like, “Okay, well, it’s helping me feel strong. It’s helping me feel like I’m really capable. Where else can I feel strong in my life, where else can I feel capable, so that I don’t have to hold on to this pain to have those things. And so then that’s what I’ve done. And it took a little time. It was lather, rinse, repeat. Like I still say the first cogno conscious I went to was when my pain state changed permanently. And it did. But that doesn’t mean that I walked out pain free and stayed pain free. It was lather, rinse, repeat, because your subconscious mind needs time, sometimes to catch up. And when it’s a long standing pattern, like physical pain, it may go deeper and mine had legs. There were a bunch of different pieces to it. It wasn’t just financial scarcity that I had fear around, there were some other pieces as well, you know, my career’s completely different. I look younger than I did two years ago.

Liz Larson  42:02

That’s so true.

Katie Wrigley  42:04

And I’m not the only one. So it’s absolutely amazing. And I had, you know, in the last Cogno conscious, I’ve done three of them now. And I will continue to do them whenever I possibly can. And whenever you’re offering them, because they are so transformative. And in three or four days, it is amazing what you can do, and you make it so easy to integrate on the other side as well. And I found something in there, that I had no idea it was there. I really thought that I had wanted a relationship with someone in my life. And I was shocked to find out. I actually don’t, I love them. But I’m not looking for an active relationship. That part is past. And that was really liberating and free to understand. And I don’t have angst around that dynamic anymore. And I actually may wind up being in a place with this person where I couldn’t have a more symbiotic relationship in the future, because that hook’s gone out of my neurology now. Because they were reacting to that hook. And I was reacting to that hook. And we didn’t know and I took the hook away. So I’m actually really excited to see this person again, I’m going to see them next week, actually, for the holidays, right around the time this is airing, and I’m actually really looking forward to it, which I can’t remember the last time I said that.

Liz Larson  43:24  

You know, that’s really an amazing phenomenon. And I’m so happy for you that you’ve got there. But you know, it’s an amazing phenomenon that we can have a person that we’re pushing against shoving against fighting against, in our mind. And in our body. When we see them our body reacts, you know with that pit in the stomach, the punch to the head, you know, we react to all the times that we interacted with them and we emit really a signal that person does push against as well. They feel it, you know, they can actually smell the cortisol, which sounds gross, but in our field, they really do. We omit a stress hormone that they come in contact with. And they’re like, “Wait, where’s the fight? Oh, I see it. It’s right there. It’s on”. So the minute it collapses in your system that no longer happens, we kind of call it getting to neutral, where it’s just okay for that person to live on the planet. It’s okay for them to be who they are. It’s okay for them to be what they are. Doesn’t necessarily affect me. And now I have this choice. Maybe I don’t really have them be a big part of my life. But it’s okay for them to be who they are can still love them from a distance. Or, hey, this thing’s all cleared up. You know, let’s kick up a friendship. From the last Cogno conscious seminar, there were three grown adult people who found a gorgeous relationship with a parent who they had hated most of their life. Wow. Think about that. They hated them. They leave the seminar and they go home. And they find not only do they love the person, but they enjoy being around them. They’re laughing, joking, traveling together, having a great time. So which version of that person was true? Which version was accurate? Maybe both. But what it does is it changes that perspective so completely because your body just isn’t reacting that way anymore. And there’s nothing for them to fight against. And there’s nothing for you to fight against. And what we call a calibrated loop is collapsed. It’s no longer “I do this, or you do that you do that so I do this”. It’s kind of a dance that we weave together now. Even if it is, like you say, at a distance, where we don’t interact all the time. But from a distance, we can still wish each other well.

Katie Wrigley  46:02  

Yes, absolutely. And even getting to a point where you can wish someone well, especially if it’s been someone who’s traumatized you or has caused you deep pain and deep grief and deep loss in your life to be able to get neutral on that person. Friendship to the side, just being able to not actively hate them anymore. Like what a relief to the nervous system that is.

Liz Larson  46:27  

Well, Bill and I, we’ve both gotten to experience that personally, ourselves. Getting to neutral, right, Bill?

Bill McKenna  46:34  

Yeah, you know, it affects every aspect of your life. You don’t think it does. But it really does impact you. If you, for example, find yourself kind of like me, and you right, Katie? You know, we hurt ourselves a lot, right? We both broke our backs. We broke lots and lots of bones. I think my daughter the other day was asking me “Tell me what bones you broke”  and I started listing them off now the one percent, I tried to go up my body and the other percent, “How about we do this opposite? Why don’t you just tell me what you didn’t break?” Shorter list. And she said, “It actually does work out better that way. That’s a short list.” So you know, when we resent another we become very kind of accident prone, shall we say. And that accident proneness will emanate through relationships. It’s our physical bodies, illnesses, finances, all of it is interrelated. And when this all goes away, what happens is, there are synchronicities and coincidences and positive relationships start to emerge. Life starts to work better.

Katie Wrigley  48:25  

You know visuals coming to mind as you’re talking there Bill. I’m kind of seeing, and Liz with you as well, it started to come up as both you are talking. I’m kind of seeing like this flat surface of water with all these drops going down and each drop is one component in our life. And there’s little concentric circles that are coming out on the surface of the water from that drop. And each one of those drops has concentric circles that are overlapping each other and that’s the way we all work. We are one person so any perspective that we have on money, it’s going to influence our relationship, it’s going to influence how we talk to other people, it’s going to influence how we talk to ourselves, it’s going to influence how we spend definitely, or how we don’t spend, you know?. If you look at just your health like if you’re in pain if you think that pain is only affecting you, I’m sorry my friend but it is affecting way more than you. It goes so much deeper than just any one place you know, and you can think about like something that you’re even dying for. You know, today for example, maybe you guys can help me with this, I don’t normally eat very much meat anymore. I could not get enough of it today. I have been ravenous and I don’t get it. But I can do a session and knock out that craving if I really wanted to be a vegetarian. You know, but I don’t exactly know what my neurology is trying to tell me. I haven’t had a chance to settle down, but it’s kicking something up. It’s like, “Hey, hey, you need something here”

Liz Larson  50:09  

Yeah, you know, it’s an interesting topic. So two things, one with meat, you always want to look at iron, you know, what’s your relationship with iron? Do you need it for the day? When that’s always an issue or protein, sometimes your body really needs protein. But it could also be something that as the holidays approach, and people are going to be getting together, our anxieties, subconsciously, it’s the nervous system starts to generate the fear machine. Starts to ramp up a bit, and will crave things that feel comfortable. Meat’s one of those things, it’s very grounding. It’s very filling, there’s a lot of nutrition there. So sometimes it’s a form of love, or external nutrition that we feel we need. So, in this case, what I would do is if you’re thinking something’s a little off about it, you get in and do what’s called a cognomovement craving set, which disconnects the desire for it from anything emotional that doesn’t serve us. So we have a lot of fun stories about people like… Pepsi Max, we had a guy who love Pepsi Max. Now, Pepsi Max has a lot of artificial sweetener in it. And it was creating him a lot of pain and discomfort. It’s not great for you, we all know that. But he was drinking like two liters a day or some huge amount. So we did a cognomovement set and what it does is you just let yourself love it. Let yourself enjoy it. You really get to have it. There’s none of this, like “You shouldn’t have it, it’s bad for you don’t do it.” It’s “Love it!” as much as you do during the set. And it lets the nervous system autocorrect. And at the end, you just don’t want it anymore. It’s kind of taste gross. Well, after that, he no longer wanted Pepsi Max. At all. We caught up with him a couple of weeks later, and we said, “oh, how are you doing? You know, you have extra energy?” “No, not really. I’m not really feeling that much better.” “Oh, okay. What did you do this weekend?” “Well, you know, I was building this tree house and I went out and I redesigned it and I rebuilt the whole thing.” “Oh, in a whole weekend?” “Yeah.” “You didn’t have any extra energy?” “Oh, wait a minute. I guess I did. And creativity and a better mood, and no pain.” And he was off the Pepsi Max hadn’t even thought about it.

Katie Wrigley  52:51  


Bill McKenna  52:53  

That was an incredible story, Liz, had that helped him with this. And and here’s the thing, you know, that Treehouse, he said he had been designing it over a two year period and never built any of it. And then Liz had asked him, “hey, what about your creativity? You know, have you seen any changes in creativity?” He was like, “No.” And so. And then, you know, Liz asked about that treehouse. And he says, “Oh, yeah, I didn’t like those designs. So I redesigned it.” Redesigned the entire thing that weekend and built it! So massive creativity, right?! And energy and accomplishment.

Liz Larson  53:44  

Yeah, that was just from a craving. So we don’t realize how often our nervous system can keep us really distracted and that’s one of the ways it does it, with a food that’s really not good for us. The food that’s really not great for you, it’s always something that’s going to create inflammation, you know, spike your blood sugars, something like that. You know, there’s really, nobody who craves broccoli, not very often, you know, or a nice big salad every night, you know, it’s ice cream, chips, stuff like that. So it’s things that are going to keep our nervous system entertained and occupied with a problem. And the more we do it, the more addicted we get to it. So clearing that out of your system, doing a craving set with cognomovement, letting the nervous system autocorrect to really see that item for what it is, allows for the energy to return to the body and then, you know, a person can create a whole tree house over the weekend, new designs, you know, have the energy to create the whole things no more pain. It’s shocking what’s actually wrapped up in just one craving.

Katie Wrigley  55:00  

Wow, I wish I had been paying more attention when I knocked out the caramel on the marshmallow cravings that I did early on. I still don’t care for either of them. I went to have a marshmallow and it was like fluffy air and it’s totally not worth the calories anymore. Like I don’t even drink hot chocolate anymore because I drank it for the marshmallows. So I just don’t have it

Liz Larson  55:19  

I got were whammy’d, we were working on a session, Bill and I, early on when we were figured out we could do this over zoom with a guy who wanted to clear chocolate chip cookies out of his life. And I’m watching so intently, we’re watching to see the changes to see what happened. Well I don’t keep chocolate chip cookies in my house, because I would eat them. It’s a problem. I don’t keep, you know, sugar or other things in my house and I don’t care about ice cream or pie and none of that, candy. But a good cookie, man that that’s that was for me. So about six months later, my daughter takes me to this chocolate chip cookie place. And I mean these things are like a pound each. It smells incredible in this place. They’re thick, they’re soft, exactly what I would think I would like. So we buy one. And of course we are going to take a snack of it on the way home, take a bite and I’m like, “This doesn’t taste good at all.” My daughter starts to go nuts. “What are you crazy, these things are fantastic”. I’m like, it doesn’t taste like anything. It tastes like cardboard. Like, you know, the texture is okay. And this smells good. But it doesn’t taste like a thing. And so she thought I was crazy. But I thought okay, it’s just not a good cookie. Another six months go by and I make chocolate chip cookies for my son. And all of a sudden, I realized I wasn’t even tempted to take a bite of the dough, which I would have loved in the past. So I hadn’t touched them. And a few days in, I asked my son “Are these any good?” and he said, “Oh man, those are the best ones you ever made Mom.” So I took a taste of it. Again, cardboard, and then it dawned on me. That dang session I was whammy’d proxy. So to this day, chocolate chip cookies, they could live in my house for a month and I just don’t care.

Katie Wrigley  57:15  

I have seen you personally walk by chocolate chip cookies without even a second glance. Me however, I haven’t done that set yet. So I still like them.

Liz Larson  57:22  

Well, you have to be careful because if you don’t really want to get rid of it, don’t do the set because it’s gone and gone for good. There’s chips that I didn’t even have a craving set for it. But during a practitioner session, somebody needed to be the victim for the set. I mean, the client. So you know, nobody else wanted to get rid of anything, because they’d all done it. And they all knew better if they didn’t want to get rid of it not to do the set. So I did it. It was on these chips, and I would just munch them occasionally, while I was cooking, I did not need the calories, right. But it was only occasional. Now that practitioner treated me so thoroughly, that I literally don’t want to look at the bag. As I walk in the grocery store. I avoid looking at the stand.

Katie Wrigley  58:10  

Wow. That’s a big shift. And that’s something that wasn’t even certified yet. They were in training.

Liz Larson  58:14  

Now our practitioners and training, we could tell stories for days about the incredible things that they can create. The system’s actually quite simple on its surface, there’s a lot of complexity, a lot of ways that it can be used for different things. But it’s quite simple and easy to learn for most people, and so because of that our new practitioners can just create miracles.

Katie Wrigley  58:40  

I agree. And each one of us has a different focus. You know, we have someone who’s focused around speech, we have someone else who’s a therapist who is EMDR and focused on trauma. And she saved multiple lives already with cognomovement. You know, I, we have a health focus, we have more of an esoteric like everybody brings their own flavor and style to it. And it’s so incredible. I love being on the calls, because you hear all these amazing things that have happened all over the place that you had nothing to do with. But it’s amazing. I can’t imagine it ever not blowing my mind how effective this system is, you know, and there’s always that person that it doesn’t work for. And so far in my experience the person doesn’t work for it’s that they don’t want to stay in the feeling the feeling is the key like you were saying the body is a way to access the mind.

Liz Larson  59:42  

What I would say about that is what’s kind of an amazing phenomenon that Bill and I have witnessed is the practitioners that come to do the work and the clients that come to get the work. They’re ready. And most people have done a lot of other things, but on some level, their neurology, their subconscious is ready to be done. Because it’s quite permanent the work that we do, it changes the nervous system forever. I think there’s some level that the body knows that. And so people show up when they’re ready. So sometimes we will have people who come, who absolutely, I mean, you know, maybe they’re a hostage, somebody else made them come. Yeah, doesn’t work that well. I’ve had people dropped off at my office by a former client, and the person doesn’t know why they’re there. So that’s not good. But it doesn’t work great for them. It’s not that you have to believe in it. But the nervous system, we do have free will. We can block it, we can block a change that we’re not ready for. And when that happens, the nervous system kind of shuts down. And we’ll, as a practitioner, see the pushback. But I would say that’s one in 100-150 people. I’ve seen it a handful of times in my office, I don’t know. How many times have you seen that, Bill?

Bill McKenna  1:01:09  

It’s very rare. Like you say, it’s rare that that happens. Most of the time, they’re ready to go. What I do see is, what I would call the hidden secondary gains. For example, someone who’s on disability, and we end up taking care of an issue. And the issue will go from a 10 down to let’s say, a four. And for some reason for you know, it’s like, you can’t get it any lower than a four. And inevitably, you know, when that happens, Liz said, you just simply ask the question, is there any financial gain from this or would it be a loss? If this pain went away, would you lose anything financially? And the most amazing thing is, is that, “Oh, it’s a disability, you know, I get a disability check on that, or there’s an outstanding lawsuit”, you know, for this. So, that’s fairly common.

Katie Wrigley  1:02:44  

And it makes sense that that would keep the person stuck too, right, because I think at our core, no one really actually wants to be dishonest. And there’s a lot of fear when you have been told you need disability, using air quotes, you need disability, you’re going to be disabled for life. That’s a big leap of faith to believe that a brightly colored ball and some eye movements and some prompts and some backtracking and *POOF!* now I can work again. Like that’s going to be a big stretch for someone to have. So it’s understandable that it wouldn’t be. You have a conflicting pattern and that pattern is stronger than the one that you actually want to have go away. You know, I recently experienced something similar with the adrenal fatigue that I was diagnosed with. And going back, I know I had adrenal fatigue since before cognomovement, because I really had to think back. So I’m like, Okay, we’re going back two years, I was drinking, when I started cognomovement, I was drinking, no joke, about a half a gallon of coffee a day. Like it was a lot, it was a lot of coffee. And I was going through like the creamers with tons of sugar in it and all this false crap in it too. And so that I’m sure was part of the pain as well. But what I didn’t know was that my body needed that artificial stimulation because I didn’t have any cortisol and I didn’t have it for years. And what I’ve learned through what I understand from cognomovement, and then tying in part of what I learned in the root cause analysis, the way that my body’s adapted, and by the way, I don’t drink coffee anymore. I have a chai tea latte in the morning, which is probably four ounces of half as strong of caffeine. And I go all day, I get up at 630. I usually work until eight o’clock at night. I have breaks I take throughout the day, but I’m a fully very active person. And I am not stimulated by caffeine anymore. My body adapted to the lack of cortisol through cognomovement. And so what I found and actually I haven’t shared this good news with you guys yet. I shared this theory with Liz of like, oh, okay, now that I understand, so what my body was doing was I was creating stress and the absence of cortisol to be able to function. And so my body would create the cortisol and dump it again. And so I did a session with Coral last week and I reprogrammed that. And she checked on me right away. And I was like, you know, I’m like, this one’s going to take a little longer. And then we checked in again, this week, I’m like, I have started to opt out of stress, like intentionally opting out of stress stuff that I used to allow, I’m just opting out of it. I just do not want to feel it. And so I’ve gone from about a half a gallon a coffee day, to my chai tea latte. And now that I understood that I was creating stress, I shifted that prompt to what my nervous system was looking for. That’s key. And now I’m opting out of stress. And I’m opting into excitement and anticipation, which are positive emotions that get my body waking up without tweaking my cortisol levels.

Bill McKenna  1:06:06  

That’s fantastic! I love that! Access to joy.

Katie Wrigley  1:06:18  

Yes. And Excitement instead of anxiety and stress, I mean, talk about a big perspective shift.

Bill McKenna  1:06:24  

Yeah, you’re doing it, you’re living it. That’s a perfect living example of it.

Katie Wrigley  1:06:33  

I love this system. So I could talk to you guys all day. You know this because I talk to you all the time. I would love to offer the audience a freebie. Do you guys have one in mind that we can share?

Bill McKenna  1:06:44  

Absolutely. So if you go to Cognomovement.com/gaia. Now, there is a full one hour webinar and it’s going to help to educate you on what we’re talking about: What can you expect if you ended up doing this. What is going to happen to your life? If you did relieve yourself of guilt, grief, anger, shame, humiliation, all of these automatic reactions. What could you expect? There are levels where reality literally shifts and changes that life becomes filled with synchronicity and positive coincidences, you automatically start to feel good about yourself. And people like you and you like yourself. Not only that, but some amazing other aspects of life naturally emerge. As strange as it sounds, everything will begin to operate differently, even time itself. So you can learn about that at cognomovement.com/Gaia, you can watch that. And on that same page, you’re going to see there’s going to be two free ebooks that Liz Larson wrote. The first one is called Suffering is Optional. And the second one is called The Tiny Book of Big Manifesting. Those are very, very popular books. Pick those up even if you didn’t watch the that webinar. Those books are awesome. You’re going to want to share those on Instagram, Pinterest, wherever. Feel free to do that.

Liz Larson  1:09:09  

It’s actually the tiny book, Bill.

Bill McKenna  1:09:15  

Ohh tiny! I thought that’s what I said. But anyway, those are three great things for you there. Head on over and enjoy.

Katie Wrigley  1:09:31  

Those are awesome freebies. I’ve actually watched that special on Gaia and just to anybody listening who is a fan of the Gaia app. Bill is one of the most popular people on Gaia. They have asked him to come back more than most other hosts like they absolutely love him and it is because of the things that he just offered in that masterclass, that free masterclass. Bill has amazing wisdom. I encourage you to go watch this. Liz as well. I’m not trying to leave Liz out of this. 

Liz Larson 1:10:02  

I’m just not on that class.

Katie Wrigley  1:10:05  

Right. But these are awesome freebies for you guys. And you also have another freebie that you offer kind of regularly. Isn’t there a regular like Cogno hour where people could join as well? 

Liz Larson 1:10:15  

Yeah, we do! Twice a month, we have what’s called Cogno hour. And it’s actually a free session that we do via zoom. It’s also broadcast over Facebook, on our cognomovement page. Totally free, people can come ask questions, and, you know, tell their stories, the things that they’ve created for themselves with cognomovement. But the biggest thing is they get a mini session. So you get to try this thing on and see if it actually works for you. And we’ve had amazing miracles, and manifestations just from that little session happen. And we hear them every week. So it’s really fun, we really invite everyone to come and just give it a try. Try it on.

Katie Wrigley  1:10:55  

Awesome. Thank you for that. So that is an awesome, fantastic invitation, you can try cognomovement for free, all you need to do is go to cognomovement.com and then sign up for the mailing list, correct? And they’ll get the invites for any of the events that are coming up?

Liz Larson  1:11:11  

Yeah, actually, if you come to the Gaia class, the cognomovement.com/Gaia, with Bill’s, map of levels of awareness, you’ll be signed up and you’ll get our notices about these classes that are coming. We don’t send out a lot of emails but you’re already signed up for that. The other thing we really want people to know, and this has to do with our good friend Katie here, you can actually get a session with a real live cognomovement practitioner, like Katie, with all their unique specialties. And you can find that on cognomovement.com. So we’re offering all this free stuff, and we really want you guys to take advantage of it. But if you’re a person who heard something today, that really speaks to you, that you know, you’re ready to create change now. Reach out and get a session with a practitioner, I promise you will be something that you never ever regret, you may not remember it. But your life will be so much better for it. So our practitioners are just the most incredible people that Bill and I have ever met. And we couldn’t recommend them more highly. Of course, you can have a session with Bill and I as well. But we really recommend our practitioners first.

Katie Wrigley  1:12:34  

And thank you for that. 

Bill McKenna 1:12: 38

And you can get to them at the practitioner tab on the cognomovement site and Katie’s there as well.

Katie Wrigley  1:12:48  

I am. That is true. And we’ll make sure that those links are in the show notes so that people can click directly and go to them. And thank you guys again, so much. This has been such a great conversation and such an honor to be able to interview you guys on my podcast after everything that you’ve done to help me transform my life and live in this thriving, pain free state that I get to live in today. Thank you for that.

Liz Larson  1:13:13  

Well, thanks for being a part of it. Katie, you certainly are a shining star in our book not only in our work, but on the planet. We’re so appreciative of everyone who’s willing to go out and make a difference in someone else’s lives. And you’re certainly doing that day in and day out. So we’re just so happy to have you be part of our team and for us to be a part of yours.

Katie Wrigley  1:13:34  

Wow, thank you guys. That’s a wonderful note. So thank you to my cherished listener for joining us again today for this special episode, and I will be back again next week.

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