Episode 44: A Tale of 2 Ways to Heal: Psychedelics & Cognomovement


In this episode, you will learn:

  • The one thing Cognomovement and Psychedelics have in common
  • Where they differ and what those differences will give you
  • How both have helped me directly
  • Use cases for both modalities
  • What Cognomovement did to help better prepare me for a psychedelic ceremony

Episode 44: A Tale of 2 Ways to Heal: Psychedelics & Cognomovement

Katie Wrigley  0:00  
Welcome back to the Pain Changer podcast. This is episode 44 and I am your host Katie Wrigley. Today is another solo episode and I wanted to touch on two different healing modalities that I have used pretty extensively myself. And those are cognitive movement and psychedelics. So today I wanted to point out some of the similarities that they have, and also the differences, but aspects of each and why they can be so beneficial to help you heal. I hope you’ll stay with me, that’s coming up next.

Announcer  0:37  
Welcome to the Pain Changer Podcast, where you will learn insider tips and tricks to help you improve your pain levels without the nearly daily trip to the doctor, or heavy pain medications. When you change your mind, you will change your experience with pain. Every week, the Pain Changer podcast will teach you new ways to tune into your body in order to change your mind. If you had to scrape yourself off the bed like your undercooked pancake on an ungreased pan this morning. You’re in the right place. Now, here’s your host, Katie Wrigley.

Katie Wrigley  1:11  
Okay, so psychedelics and cognomovement, one of the things they have in common is that the cognitive movement ball looks a little psychedelic. But it’s actually on that. So I want to preface this. First of all, I am not a doctor giving medical advice. I know I have that disclaimer in each show. But I really just want to be clear about that. And I am not by any means an expert in psychedelics, I do know people who are experts in psychedelics. So if you’re listening, and you have any interest in exploring that world, in that healing modality for yourself, I can connect you to someone who can help you. But that is not me. I am, however, an expert in cognitive movement. And I have done many ceremonies of different sorts. And we’ll go into those in a moment. And I have actually used cognitive movement to actually help me prepare for the ceremony. So that’s what I want to talk about today are some of the things that I’ve gotten from both of these and why, again, why they are effective. So keep in mind, though, a lot of this is anecdotal. And as far as I know, I’m literally the only person in the world who has actually used cognitive movement to prepare for a psychedelic ceremony. So we don’t have enough data to call it empirical yet. It’s just me, but it was amazing – what happened. So let’s talk a little bit about psychedelics first. There is a really great documentary on Netflix, I think it’s still out, I’m not actually 100% sure, and I didn’t look before I hopped into this recording. But it was a series called The Mind Explained. And they went into a lot of different aspects of mental health, like what anxiety does to us depression, they had another one on mindful meditation, and what that gives us from a cognitive level with our brains, they went into a lot of different components. And it was a really fascinating series, and the one that really caught my attention was the episode on psychedelics. And one piece really stood out to me. And I had a major aha moment and kind of understood some of the parallels between cognitive movement and psychedelics, when I saw this, the image they show in that episode, and I’m going to try to link it in the show notes of it’s still out there, I’m going to link it in the show notes. They show the left side of the brain, or they show a brain that is sober. And you see the left side talking to the left side and the right side talking to the right side. And every once in a while maybe a piece of information goes across the corpus callosum, which for lack of a better term, down the middle of our brains. There isn’t too much cross movement of data on its own between the two hemispheres of the brain. So one of the things that psychedelics does, and then the other screen that it showed in this, this documentary, and before I go away from that point, it showed the brain on psychedelics and the whole thing is lit up the right sides talking to the left side, and it’s all over the place, you have all these different information channels that start to run through the brain that aren’t available in a sober state of mind. So this is also wild when you’re doing psychedelics more recreationally and not in a ceremonial setting. And we’ll go into the difference there as well, because there is a difference. That’s why you’re seeing colors and you’re tripping balls, and you think your friends are kind of looking like jello and all that if you’re tripping with them. It’s because you have all these different neural pathways that are wide open and go in like crazy in your brain. That’s why you see all the bright colors, why everything feels like it’s from a different perspective. And also, why sometimes when you come out of psychedelics, you’re wondering if it was real or not, it’s because it’s expanded your mind in ways that your mind is not normally expanded. And there’s also an element in there. So a lot of this is that movement in the mind that’s going to help resolve a lot of issues. You know, and I reached out to an expert I know in psychedelics, I’m gonna leave her anonymous because I didn’t ask her permission to bring her up on this episode. But I reached out to someone to talk about doing this episode. You know, with all the knowledge that she has, she said, something I really loved. And that was that there is still a mystical, a spiritual component that can’t really be explained in psychedelic medicine. And I love that, I kind of love that something works and I’m at a point where I don’t have to be able to fully explain it with science, like a little bit of science to back up the concept that that helps. But really, it’s, I kind of like a little bit of mystical there. And she’s right, you know, and there is a huge spiritual aspect with healing as well. And as I continue to heal more and more layers, myself, I’m feeling more connected to source or to universe or to God or whatever it is that you personally call that energy, I’m trying to stay as nondenominational and non,

Katie Wrigley  6:06  
as neutral as I can, speaking about a higher power, but I do very much believe in a higher power by itself. And the deeper I go into this healing, the more my consciousness raises, the more connected I feel to that power, the more in touch I feel with that power. And never have I felt as connected as I do when I am in a psychedelic ceremony, that is when I feel the most connected. So now if we go over to the cognitive movement piece, and I want to talk a little bit about how both of them are helping you heal. So the cognitive movement piece, the thing that is in common with psychedelics is that because of how the ball works, and the movements with the eyes, and up the ball, or at the body, rather with the ball that we’re doing. And because of all the different movements we’re doing in there, we can actually start to force even though it sounds like a heavy word, but we start to move, I guess that’s a better word, we’re moving information between the two hemispheres of the brain. So we’re starting to get that extra communication going across the corpus callosum, which is similar to what we get with psychedelics. But it’s not going to an extent where you’re going to start tripping balls or seeing colors, or anything else. But when you’re in that state, you are starting to gain more access to solutions and answers you wouldn’t have had otherwise. And so that component of both of the modalities, what that is helping you do. As you get more information, it’s going to be easier to make a perspective shift and a perspective shift can be massive. And it used to sound like such a small thing to me, I don’t know if that resonates with you or not. But again, the deeper I get into this work, the more I realize, wow. Okay, a perspective shift is huge, like a perspective shift can be the difference between almost divorcing your partner and leaning in closer to them. Because you have shifted your perspective and you’re able to see things in a way that allows you to be fluid, again, a perspective shift can be the difference between excruciating pain and losing your identity. And being able to have a fulfilling life now that perspective shift is not going to happen overnight, the subconscious isn’t going to allow for that big of a shift permanently, we may have relief in periods. But overall, it doesn’t continue to keep that big of a shift from excruciating pain, to barely noticing it, there’s a lot that happens between those two. But it starts to create this extra healing in the body. as well. The other component within both of them, that is helping you heal is both of them are bringing you inwards. And this is also another note I want to make on psychedelics is they cannot be addictive. The drugs that are addictive are the ones that have you going externally, that’s going to be cocaine, even weed to a point even though you can do a lot of internal weak work on cannabis as well. Heroin is going to have you going outside alcohol has you going outside speed has you going outside pretty much every street drug, all of the other drugs out there, they have you focusing outside of yourself. It is an escape mechanism, in order to avoid what you were feeling inside. Psychedelics work the opposite. They make you go inward. And so one of the things that I’ve experienced what I’ve been trying to do there more recreationally, which I did you know a few times in my past I was not a fan of them actually until I started to do them in ceremony because they always fucked with my head so bad. I just didn’t, I wasn’t ready for what they were trying to help me see is I guess the best way to say that. And so I had some negative experiences using them recreationally before you know and that can happen is that you know you’re you’re starting to be more connected to this universal truth. To these messages to the inside, and if you inside you and if you are not ready to go inside, that is not going to be a pleasant trip at all, because that’s where you’re going. When you’re going on psychedelics, that’s where your brain wants to go, that’s where you’re going. And it’s going to be very uncomfortable if you don’t want to be there. That’s also one of the reasons, just as a side note that I tell people, they want to be ready to work with me, not that it’s going to be grueling, not that it’s going to be excruciating. But you want to be ready to do this work, you want to be open to it, you can come with all the skepticism you want. But you want to be ready and open when you’re starting to engage in this kind of work. Same thing with psychedelics, you want to be ready for them. So that inward nature that psychedelics are giving you gives you time to be still, it gives you time to go inside, it gives you time to look at those different perspectives, and see a different way of the solution or of the situation that may look and feel more like truth to you. And that then can dispel a lot of the emotions that come with it such as anger, or frustration, or guilt, you can start to shift those emotions and start to see more accurately the whole picture from a higher level of awareness. Hoping this is making sense so far. A lot again, what I’m talking about is anecdotal today. So far, we’ve talked a little bit about what they have in common. We’ve also talked about how it’s going to help you start to heal that stillness in there. You cannot get addicted to psychedelics, you can’t. It is literally impossible. So the psychedelic ceremonies that I’ve done in the interest of being full transparency, I have done psilocybin several times, I’m actually not sure how many times I’ve done San Pedro, which is mescaline, I’ve done that three times. The first time was more recreational, but it did have a little bit of purpose and intent to it. The second time was very medicinal, and the third time was as well. And I’ve also done 15 ceremonies with Ayahuasca, which is DMT, or the spirit molecule. There is an amazing resource, it’s very long, but there is a great resource, I’m going to link into the show notes that is called the spirit of DMT, the spirit molecule. Now Joe Rogan actually did a movie on this, but is not out, they have taken it out of circulation, for whatever reason, they have taken it out of circulation, but the book is still available to get on Amazon. So I’ll make sure I am linked over there. So in these ceremonies, what I first started to notice in my body, because I started to do psilocybin when I was still disabled, so this was five years ago. And the first thing that I noticed was when I was in the ceremony, I noticed a very big absence of pain, which allowed my brain the freedom to go inward to really explore inside my body, what was happening, and helped me start to make sense of it. And I started to get messages that were coming from my past and even some other lives. You know, some people listening may not believe in other lives. That is cool. In my own spiritual practice, do you believe that we’re here more than once, and we get, we only have one shot at this life. But I do believe the soul has many iterations on this earth. But at any rate, I started to get answers coming in through ceremony with psilocybin. And I noticed as I did it, my body felt better. And then I started to microdose a little bit and really noticed an absence of anxiety and depression really started to help me pull out of my rock bottom that I had been in back in 2018, which was exactly what I needed. And then let’s see. And then I did the mescaline ceremonies and started to really, really go deep. And the second ceremony that I did was incredibly powerful. And my coach had come out to do the ceremony with me, I wasn’t yet ready to travel, I was going to be another month or actually two months before I traveled, I hurt too much to be able to get on a plane back then. And that was an incredibly intense ceremony. And so this is another note is that both of these modalities as you’re going inward, you’re going into the subconscious mind. And I know you’ve heard me say this on other podcast episodes, anything that is allowing you access to the subconscious mind is going to aid in your healing. Your subconscious mind has been tracking everything that has happened to you from the time you were in your mother’s womb, until this moment right now. And every moment that is continuing on after this. Your subconscious is tracking all of it. It’s like the black box on an airplane. It has all the answers. We just have to be able to find it and crack into it. We know that it’s in our body. You find it by going inward by being still by connecting deeply to ourselves. Psychedelics were a very easy way to help me do that. I think in large part, one of the reasons that it helped me so much to start to connect is because I had been an addict because I had avoided all of this stuff that desperately needed my attention in order for me to feel better. I had done such an epic job of avoiding it that I think I almost had to be in an altered state of mind to even start to accept that. And at this point, that is not a requirement anymore, I can do a lot of this work with cognitive movement, I can do it in regular meditation now, without needing to alter my mind state to do it. That’s my own choice. There are plenty of people I know that are called to the medicine and called to the plant on a much more frequent interval than I am. And that works for them. And I’m watching them heal. It is absolutely a valid method of healing. It’s just different from what I do.

Katie Wrigley  15:48  
In this ceremony, though, the mescaline ceremony, San Pedro that I did was in March of 2018, that was so impactful, I am still seeing things coming into my life from messages I received in that ceremony. It was mind blowing. And I even went back to the time when I was in my mother’s uterus and could hear conversations between my parents. And that actually helped me really understand how much I was loved, and wanted and how much they wanted to bring me into this world, which gave me a lot of comfort to be able to understand that and even recall it. And it was a hugely cathartic, very emotional ceremony for me as well. But it was wonderful. And I, that was probably still one of the most impactful ceremonies I’ve had. And as soon as I came out of that ceremony, that was when I could not deny anymore, that I knew that I was running from something that that childhood trauma that I had so desperately so Oh, gosh, I don’t even know what the word is just really did everything in my power to avoid acknowledging for 42 years, when I came out of that San Pedro ceremony is like it is time for Ayahuasca, I have a repressed memory. And that is going to help me find it. And the funny thing about remembering this now is I had that thought coming out of the ceremony, and then it was not in my conscious mind at all. And I did my first Ayahuasca ceremony two months after that. And I did not again, in my conscious mind, that was not what I was aware of. Going into it. I was scared. I knew that I had some work to do. It actually makes me laugh now. But I was so afraid of God’s judgment. And I laugh now, because if you’ve spent any time with the medicine, you know that God is not judgmental at all, or at least not the God I’m talking to, not the spirit. And that judgment was coming from me. And what I was deeming myself not good enough in my life at that point in time. So that was all me that had nothing to do with God. But that’s what I recall going into the ceremony and my first night. My first night was when I saw the truth exposed. And my subconscious took me through so much of what I experienced as a small child, I felt the pain of where I had been physically hurt. I felt fear. I felt the emotion, I felt the anxiety, I felt the panic, I was then able to understand why as a little child, I had to be rocked to sleep at night, this made me cry a little bit. I understood why I had to be rocked to sleep tonight at night, because I was so afraid of these people coming in hurting my parents, and hurting my family, because I was too little to understand what was going on. And without those ceremonies, I do believe I would have found the trauma with cognitive movement, because I’ve seen that with too many clients and in working in general to not realize that I would still have found the answer with cognitive movements. I just found psychedelics before I found cognitive movement. So this is where the healing took place for me. And that ceremony gave me a lot of information. And the first thing I did with it coming out of it was I wanted to deny it. I wanted to tell myself that nope, it hadn’t happened because I had been in a psychedelic state of mine so it could possibly have happened. Despite the fact that the coaches that were running this retreat that I was at have been doing this for over 20 years. They are very well versed between false messages from Ayahuasca and true messages from Ayahuasca. And their feedback to me was that they were blown away by the fact that that was the information I got in my first ceremony. Because the plant never gives you what you cannot handle. That is a very important thing to understand. The plant will not give you what you cannot handle. And I had done a lot of work and a lot of self reflection, so I was ready to face that that had happened by the time I went into that ceremony, which was in May of 2019. Oh, it was night, I said, erroneously. My first mescaline ceremony was 2019 of March, not 2018. 2018 I was having my knee replacement and being disabled. This was in 2019 that I did the San Pedro and then two months later did my first Ayahuasca ceremonies. So the first night of the ceremony was hell, going and seeing that and, and understanding that and having to sit with it, and I had been very addicted to my phone, very addicted to social media and did not have much capacity to be able to sit still at that point. And this was a silent retreat. And so the next day, to be blunt, was a fucking nightmare. I felt like I was in hell of my own mind, just wanting so desperately a distraction from me. But there was none. And so it forced me to stay with me. And I am so grateful for that now, because that weekend permanently shifted so many of these patterns that weren’t serving me. And then the next night or ceremony was so much easier. I got to go back and experience what my childhood would have been like, had I not had the trauma, and I got to reconnect, and felt like I reconnected to some of my family that has passed on. And I got access on the third night, it got even more beautiful. And I got access, you know, to more memories of my mom and the loving things that she said to me when I was baby in the crib and how loving my dad had been with me and how much they just lit up. Every time they came in to see me and how loving they were to my sister and all of these wonderful, amazing things. And so it went from day one, just being a massive resistance and feeling like it was in my own personal hell, to day two being like, hey, this isn’t so bad, to be by myself and journaling more and being awake more and just sitting in silence and soaking in all this beauty that was around me, this is a beautiful location in Florida, it is absolutely breathtaking. They have all these fruits and vegetables growing naturally around there. It’s just a wonderful place to be. And I started to really feel that energy whereas the day before that had not been accessible at all. And then on the third day, I was so content being my own, I was almost surprised when they called us to the ceremony. And I had a huge smile on my face as I went into it. And by the end of it, my pain had been lifted so much. I felt like a completely new person. I had peeled away so many layers of grief, of shame or guilt, of confusion of not knowing any of that.

Announcer  23:02  
Do you want to continue the conversation outside of this podcast? Then I invite you to join the Pain Changer community on Facebook. Inside the Pain Changer you get exclusive offers only available to the community and first access to new offers that Katie releases. It’s also your opportunity to give Katie input both for future podcast episode topics, as well as to help Katie build out the programs and classes that you want to take and more. If you want to be a part of the Pain Changer community that I invite you to go to katiewrigley.com/podcast. That’s katiewrigley.com/podcast and click join the party.

Katie Wrigley  23:48  
So that was really impactful on psychedelics. And now similarly, in cognitive movement, the process was very, very different. But there is an event called Cognoconscious and I will link to this in the show notes. And if you use my name, if you’re going to be booking a ticket there, you will get 10% off as well. Cognoconscious is a four day event and it walks you through these energetic levels going from shame to enlightenment. So oh my gosh, I’m totally blanking on his name, David Hawkins, Dr. David Hawkins, he found that he was able to identify every en-, every energetic level on a logarithmic scale, going from shame up to enlightenment. And so most people are going to only bump maybe one or two energy levels in their life. What Liz and Bill do and this is Liz Larson, Bill McKenna of the cognitive movement team. What they do in this Cognoconscious event is they are actually bringing us up. People go up multiple levels, like my previous level, I think I’m four or five levels up from where I used to be when I before I had done any Cognoconscious and now I’ve done three Cognoconscious events and so that This has really changed in my my mind and my physical body. And I see this with other people who are doing these events as well. But what happens is we go over this. So similar to the first day of ceremony, the first day of Cognoconscious can be pure hell. And we were going through shame, we’re going through fear, we’re going through grief, apathy, like it is some heavy emotions, and it can suck, but then they’re out of your body, and you’re done. And the next day, you’re you’re may feel a little bit like a cat being held over a bathtub and like now, I don’t want to go in again. But you go in, and then you start to get into easier levels of energy, and your body’s feeling better and better and better. And by the end of it, you can barely communicate with each other because you are so naturally high, your vibrational level is so high, colors start to seem different, and more bright. And that kind of reminds me of the psychedelic state, and the world is just perfect as it is, and I’m totally sober. As I’m saying this right now. The world is just perfect. And you start to see this amazing, almost incomprehensible, intricate design where that connects all of us. And it’s just so perfectly woven exactly how it is. And even if it’s hard to accept the tragedies and the senseless things and the unfairness in the world, there’s these moments where you can step back and see that it’s all perfect. And it’s all meant for us all the time. And it’s this beautiful thing to witness. And similar to coming out of ceremony is that last night of ceremonies, you’re coming out of that the world looks perfect. Everything is perfect, everyone is perfect. All of this is moving exactly as it’s supposed to be moving in this feeling of oneness, this deep knowledge of how much we are all connected. And the comfort and the beauty of that just comes through in both of these modalities. And it’s just been life changing, as you have heard me say over and over again, the combination of these modalities has led me from needing a neurosurgery or so I was told, and another knee surgery and a neck surgery to having zero surgeries, and zero pain. And some of it is indirect from messages that I’ve gotten here, like some of it is directly coming out in ceremony as these layers are coming out. Some of it is directly coming out with cogno movement, as I’m working with the ball and continuing to move different layers and tap into my subconscious, using both of those modalities. All of this is shifting and moving in the body. But it’s gotten me to a place where I don’t hurt anymore. Like and I’m getting out of the habit of my heating pads, because I don’t actually need them anymore. But I’m in the habit of them. And it was cold here this weekend. So they were kind of welcomed just because it was cold. But they aren’t needed anymore. And that was the goal that I set for myself in 2022 is that when 2022 was over, I wanted to be able to have little or no pain, without my props. And that’s where I am. And it was amazing and beautiful to be able to do that. And it was a lot of cognitive movement too. But these events were very similar to me. And I actually had to make a choice between the three day ceremony and Cognoconscious last time. And I chose Cognoconscious because this is what I do for a living too. And I was also really just called to it. And I’m still integrating what came from the last Cognoconscious, the first one, I permanently changed my pain state. The second one, I was able to leave incorporate just two weeks after that. And then the third one, I’m still integrating like I said, and with the ceremonies I’ve done, the first one started to help me be able to relieve my pain and understand deeper what some of the components were. So that I could then do further research and find these components and help source what I needed to continue to heal. And then the second ceremony, I did not come with the respect that the plant deserves. And it was a much tougher ceremony and it was exactly what I needed. And it gave me a lot of cleared energy, I cleared out a lot of body shame and that one and became very much more in tune with my body. And after that ceremony. The biggest impact was I was unable to control my weight a lot better after that ceremony, dealing with how I felt around my body and releasing all the body shame. And then the next time I went to the plant from there, it was a week-long ceremony. And that was amazing. And there’s pieces of that actually a lot of the messages from that became the work that you’ve seen me do. And then the last one I did. Oh gosh, I’m not even remembering. It was just more details around work. I didn’t actually bring my notebook out to look at what I got from each one. I just know each one I got rid of more layers of pain, more layers of grief, more layers of emotion and allowed my energy to go up and up and up even more. At this point, it’s been a year and a half since I’ve done a psychedelic ceremony of Ayahuasca. I did psilocybin facilitated psilocybin last year, but I haven’t done another psilocybin. So all of the stuff that I’ve been doing all the growth in recent months has been through cognitive movement. That’s not to say I wouldn’t benefit from a more psychedelic ceremony, I’m just not feeling called to it right now, because I’m getting so much out of cognitive movement. Now, the other really interesting thing was when I did cognitive movement to prepare for my last Ayahuasca ceremony, part of what I understand from Liz Larson is that because my brain had already known what to do in ceremony had already been in ceremony, it then knew what to do, and I didn’t need as much medicine and it was easier to connect. And so this is one of the really cool things about cognitive movement is if your body has already done this, we can actually map in the experience, again, that you want to have. And it helps your body get into the mode that you want it to be in for whatever it is you’re working on. Whether you’re having a baby, we actually have several cognitive babies, that’s a whole other topic.

Katie Wrigley  31:15  
Whether it’s going for a manifestation of a goal, whether it’s getting up on stage, whatever it is, you can actually map in the exact experience you want to have, as long as your brain has done it before, to have an idea of how we’re going to be doing this differently. So we can get really detailed. Anyway, I don’t want to go down that tangent there. But I had used cognitive movement and worked with a couple practitioner friends going into that ceremony. And so I took off a bunch of layers of shame, grief, fear, apathy, anger, frustration, pride, all of them. And I worked up that scale from David Hawkins worked all the way up, before I went into the ceremony. And when I went into the ceremony, I had never connected as fast, as easily and as painlessly, as I did, when I used cognitive movement to prepare. And so part of what I understood was that my body didn’t need as much medicine, like I said, and I went into the mode much quicker because I had to prime myself to do that. And so typically, what ceremony looks like for me is I’ll take the medicine, and then within 15 or 20 minutes, I’ll wind up purging, and then within half an hour, 45 minutes, then I’ll start to feel the medicine and really start to get into the messages. What happened with cognitive movement is I purged much faster. By the third night, actually, I had barely sat down, I don’t think I even kept the medicine in for a moment. And the second I purged, I was immediately connected. And I got to experience one of the most amazing feelings and I hope everybody listening to this podcast gets to experience what I did. I was in a state of complete and utter bliss, I could feel nothing. But pleasure in every fiber of my being there is not one spot in me that was crunchy, there was not one spot that hurt. I felt weightless, and just floating. And the facilitators of the ceremony said that when they went by, I had this huge grin on my face. And just being able to experience that like, I can still go back to it now and remember how that felt in my body and call it up again. And cognitive movement just helped make that available, because I cleared out so much of the energy that would have been cleared out by the psychedelics. But because I had done this prior to the ceremony, all of that energy was already out of the way. So the plant was able to work with me at higher energy levels and give me different answers that I hadn’t had before. And I thought that was really, really cool. Now the last thing that I want to mention in this podcast episode are some of the use cases for both of these modalities, both of them are available. Like I said, if you are interested in psychedelics, reach out, schedule a virtual chat with me, I will put a link in the show notes to my virtual chat as well. And we’ll have a talk and then if it seems like a fit, I will connect you to the person I know and trust to give you wisdom to vet you out for whether you’re ready to do psychedelics and with cognate movement, of course, I’m very well versed in that and if you want to have a chat about that, and you’re interested in doing that for your next ceremony, or in general, I encourage you to reach out and book a virtual chat with me there. Some of the use cases though, so I’ve talked to some addicts and even though psychedelics are incredibly beneficial to breaking addiction, I have seen that from other people I know who have been addicts and it really helped me break my own addictions as well. My addictions were broken before cognitive movement and that was from the psychedelic component. Some people have made a vow to themselves that they do not want to ever alter their state of mind again, and psychedelics are not going to be a good choice. for that person, because that’s going to put them into a place that feels like they’re not in integrity with themselves, and they’re not upholding the standards that they created for themselves, which is probably not going to result in the most beneficial ceremony. Nonetheless, they were able to change that perspective. And I’m not trying to change anybody’s perspective, I’ve seen people be able to get over addiction with psychedelics. And I can also completely understand, respect and honor someone who does not ever want to alter their frame of mind again, because the addiction had such a pull on them in the past. So in that case, and working in the sober mind versus the psychedelic mind, in the sober mind it is easier to hold on to the messages in there. And because we’re deleting patterns, and with cognitive movement, we’re actually tapping into the body’s innate wisdom to heal. And psychedelics tap into the body’s innate wisdom to heal as well. But because we’re doing this, we actually sometimes forget what the state had been in the beginning psychedelics, you still remember what the state was, but as you come out of it, or at least with me, I’ve noticed, like, you know, did that happen? Was that real? Was that a real message? Was it true? Was it a false message from Ayahuasca? Was it a true message from ayahuasca, and so I’ve been able to talk myself out of some messages, sometimes I’ve had a harder time accepting them. But being able to reexamine that message with cognate movement, then that helps me be able to integrate anything that I need to integrate into my life from there. There’s definitely use cases for both. And it really depends, there’s a lot of people who just aren’t comfortable with psychedelics, I touched on this earlier, is that, you know, back around the Carter and Nixon era, they started to do this massive campaign that drugs are bad. And if you look at the stats, there’s a lot of healing. There’s a lot of healing properties that come out of psychedelics. And so if they were more widely used, the amount of people who would be reliant on Big Pharma is not going to be as high. And so I can’t say, definitely, oh, the government outlawed this because it has healing properties, because it sounds fucked up even in my head. But that is kind of actually what I believe, and that we are moved away from things that help us heal on our own. And I’ve said this in other episodes, too. And we’re moved to things that mask pain and keep us going into the system because that system is more profitable than the one where you can actually heal yourself. Because if you heal yourself, you’re just not going to need as much. And I’ve seen this in my own medical expenses, where five years ago I was maxing out my health care and paying premiums out the ass. And this year, I never I barely even touched my deductible. I don’t think I even hit my deductible last year, I don’t know that I’m gonna hit it this year. Like I’m just not high maintenance and health anymore, but I was before psychedelics, and I was before cognitive movement. So I do believe there is an element of truth to what I’m saying, Even if I can’t prove it, and it sounds bad. There’s certain profit systems that make for good business. And there’s other systems that don’t make for good business, but they allow for good health and healing and wellness. And they don’t always go hand in hand. So there’s a little bit about that. But because of that stigma, with psychedelics, all the drugs are bad stuff. There’s still a lot of people who are not comfortable with that. And I understand that. And I want you to honor exactly how I feel about drug use pro con, whatever they are not for everybody. Me as a former addict, like I can’t really sit there and have come from a place where I did lines of coke over and over again to be on like, I’m not doing drugs anymore. I was still comfortable with an altered state of mind. So that was a valid place for me to go, but it may not be for you. And that’s okay. I just really want to validate that however you feel about this. It’s absolutely 100% okay. So thank you so much my cherished listener for joining me today. I hope that this has been informative. I hope it’s given you some things to think about. And my hope is that you will go find some research and reach out to me and book a call to have a chat with me. I would love to hear from you. And thank you, as always, for joining me. I hope you’re gonna come back again next week for a special Valentine’s Day episode. Spiritual Teacher and yoga therapist, Marika Carlson will be joining me to talk about your sacred sexuality and your connection to everything. I cannot wait to hear at the link she saw between pain and sexuality within her work. Join me again next week to hear everything she has to say. And until then, please remember that chronic doesn’t have to mean permanent. 

Katie Wrigley  39:32  
We are a brand new podcast. We appreciate every review we get, especially the five stars. Please help us share this podcast and spread the word that you can accept the diagnosis without accepting the prognosis. You can do this by subscribing and leaving your own five star review to let us know what you like and what you want to hear more of. Thank you so much for listening today. And as always, remember that chronic doesn’t have to mean permanent.

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