Episode 62: The Truth Behind Burnout, and how to Come Back



In this episode, you will learn:

  • How breathing exercises can help you avoid burnout 
  • Find alignment in the things you are doing now with your current reality
  • How finding meaning in your actions can help you overcome burnout

Episode 62: The Truth Behind Burnout, and how to Come Back

Katie Wrigley (KW) 0:05
Welcome back to The Pain Changer podcast. This is episode 62. And I’m your host Katie Wrigley. Do you have those days when you wake up, and you wonder how in the hell you’re going to make it through the day, and then you just drag yourself out of bed somehow make it feel like a zombie to the other end of the day? If so, you may be experiencing burnout. Today’s guest is a specialist in preventing burnout. So stay tuned. You won’t want to miss this.

KW 0:35
Joining me today is Dr. Mary Sanders. Dr. Mary has over 25 years of experience as a self employed businesswoman and consultant. And 15 years ago, she experienced burnout firsthand and crashed hard. At the time, she didn’t have the necessary tools or resources to navigate this difficult period in her life. So she panicked and ran away to the other side of the world. Now she is wholeheartedly committed to supporting women who want to transform the way they show up in this world and experience thriving health, happiness and purpose, utilizing the tools of energy medicine, chiropractic, functional blood chemistry, analysis and positive psychology. Dr. Mary earned her doctorate in chiropractic from Logan College of Chiropractic in St. Louis, Missouri. She completed her certificate in positive psychology from the whole being Institute and led Lenox, Massachusetts, and studied under Dr. Tal Ben Shahar. In addition, she completed her master’s in intuition medicine from the Academy of intuition medicine in Sausalito, California, instead into Dr. Francesca McCartney, welcome to The Pain Changer podcast. Mary, I’m so grateful to have you join me today.

Mary Sanders (MS) 01:52
Oh, Katie, I can’t tell you or nor express to you. And to the listeners, it’s always my honor. I simply adore you as an individual. And I have a tremendous amount of respect for what it is that you stand for philosophically and your purpose.

KW 02:09
Thank you. And likewise, I feel the same. And I wanted to make sure that I highlighted your background and the by and your bio there because it’s important that people know that you’re coming from what we would say the more traditional realms of chiropractic, and tying in the energy medicine component in the intuition that is just it gives you that extra superpower that makes you so unique. And so for anybody who may not have joined my recent Summit, Dr. Mary was one of my amazing guests. And she made this very, very insightful and very funny comment that every time she sees me, I look different. And that was I was reviewing the summit Mary, like, I have like four different versions of a haircut. Like, I’m like, I see what she sees.

KW 2:46
But you were just talking about hairstyle, you could pick up on things energetically in there as well. And so I really wanted to highlight that before we dive in, because that does make you exceptional at what you do. Because you have this broad range of all these different modalities, you’re pulling together into your practice.

MS 02:59
Thank you, I appreciate you saying that, because quite honestly, one of my purpose is to hold space to bridge that space between the hardcore science that we know has been proven and that we can reproduce it into the realm of defiance that has yet to be proven, meaning that from a practitioners standpoint, I utilize modalities and techniques that have not been potentially verified, and that are not reproducible, but experientially and clinically. I can testify that they work. So yes, my background is in finance. I came from hardcore science. And now I’ve made that bridge or crossed that bridge. And now I’m into the realm of I’m not going to say woowoo because I it’s so powerful and so transformational that it’s above and beyond the pixie fairy dust, it tangible results. So thanks for bringing that up. I appreciate that.

KW 4:03
Yeah, absolutely. So would you be willing to share with the audience, anyone who may not know your story of burnout and how it led you to what you’re doing now?

MS 4:12
Sure. And I for the listeners, and for myself, this is a neurological like gentle reminder, I have a full appreciation that anytime a person relives a story, the brain does not distinguish what is real versus what is imagined. So when I retell my burnout story, there’s no that there’s a part of me that can neurologically like inside of early remember, remembered the trauma of the events. And, you know, now I’m starting to see some of the humor in the sequence of events. So that’s, you know, kind of shifting the frequency a little bit but, you know, quite honestly the story. It’s not embarrassing, it’s real, it’s authentic, it happened and it is happening for some of you listening. Yeah, so if I can share my story, and if you can take away some nuggets that are tools that can support you in this path, then I’ve done my job. Because when I was going through burnout, I can honestly say I didn’t have my resources. I didn’t have my tools, and it and therefore it was chaotic. It was messy, it was explosive. And it wasn’t pretty by any means. But my, um, let me just set the stage as to where my mind that was when I was back in practice. As Katie mentioned, I am a practicing chiropractor, and I, I academically, I just excelled. So I finished my undergraduate degree in chemistry and zoology. And three days later, my butt was sitting in the chair in the classroom in chiropractic school. And so by the time I graduated, I was 25 years old. So my youth, as I see it, was all dedicated towards my education. That was my choice. But it was also kind of very much expected and imposed upon me. So I was holding and living up to other people’s expectations, primarily my parents. And so I just went with the modality of just drive and push. And then when I graduated Now, mind you, in chiropractic school, you get zero business training, you get to the technical aspects of being a good chiropractor and a good clinician, but you don’t know how to run a business. So the business portion is the school of hard knocks.

KW 6:27
Oh, yeah.

MS 6:28
No, yeah. So I was 25 years old, I spent my first year working in somebody else’s clinic part time. And I just realized I wasn’t going to be able to make it financially. I was still pulling money in order to like, cover my expenses. So after a year, I said, Okay, timeout, I’ve got to go out on my own. And Phil, I literally went to 12 different banks looking for financing and loan lending. And I was single I was 25 years old, and I had purple hair at the time. I didn’t fit within the traditional confinements of Colorado Springs, which is a very heavy, heavily influenced military town.

KW 7:05
Oh, yes.

MS 7:06
And so there was no like, the bankers were laughing, like the, like laughing to my face, like, “Okay, let me get this straight, you owe this amount of money and in student loans, and you have no income, and you want me to lend you money? Like it’s just not happening.” So essentially what I did at I took my portable adjusting cable, and I had $200 to my name, and I said, Okay, that’s going to be my rent. And my rent was a back porch of an old Victorian. And so I took my portable adjusting table, put it inside this small little room, which was maybe 200 square feet. And then I went to an auction and I purchased what was, you know, considered to be a kitchen table. So then, you know, I was doing all paper notes. There was nothing fancy about how I started in my practice. And I spent a year right, so here I am pushing and trying to figure out how to run a business. And somehow, some way I grew, I grew slowly and methodically to where a year and a half into it. I was relocating out of this 200 square foot facility into I think it was probably about a 1700 square foot facility. And then all of a sudden, I had staff and I had other practitioners that I was responsible for. So then my rigidity went on Super overload. Great. And so, my intention, every focus was how do I survive not thrive? But how do I survive? And so I pushed a push to push to push to push to push, and I made a lot of mistakes. And so you know, the trajectory was not linear. So I would go up, down, up, down, around back through the backdoor up, down. And so emotionally, I wrote this roller coaster, right?

KW 8:51
It resonates

MS 8:53
Oh, my goodness, gracious.

KW 8:54

MS 8:55
So after and I did this probably.Wow. So I guess I did that probably 10 years. And then the next thing I knew is I needed to expand again. So within two years, I purchased a freestanding building and I had a 5000 square foot beautiful office, huge data, multiple doctors. And then I decided, Hey, that’s not enough. So I’m going to get another practice a satellite office, and I’m going to manage that from a distance. Hey, that’s not enough. I think I’ll do business consulting for other chiropractors. Hey, that’s not enough. I think I’ll start a lecture series. I was crazy. Crazy in productivity that I literally I don’t think I had a single date in my 30s

KW 9:55

MS 9:56
but I got married somehow.

KW 10:00

MS 10:00
and the only reason it happened was because he was a patient. Anyway, I’ve been out, but I’m just making fun of it. But to make long story short it from the outside, Katie, people would look at me and say, Wow, she’s really on top of the world, she has it all. It looks great. The office is beautiful. There’s always cars outside, there’s always people in the waiting room, she really is living life. But on the inside, I was miserable. And I wasn’t just, you know, just kind of miserable. I mean, I would frickin miserable. So what that looked like, for me behind closed doors, I was drinking a lot of alcohol, so that I could literally unwind at the end of the day, so that I can pass out my bed, so that I could maybe sleep until the burn off of the sugar until two or three in the morning, then my mind would raise, it would just go nonstop for two hours. And then my alarm would go off so that I could be lying down the hill, I lived on the mountain and worked in spring, Beeline down the hill, so that I could meet my personal trainer at the office. So that I could workout before I started trading at 7am. And so I would do this 12 hour cycles, right? So 12 hours of work 12 hours, whatever time away from work, and I emotionally was just going downhill. So there was no sense of optimism I was withdrawing, I was pulling away from my husband, I literally was just the most pessimistic kind of a negative person that you would want to be. But the moment that I turned on the lights in my office, I painted the smile on my face. And, you know, somehow sympathetically boosted my energy through tons of caffeine. And it used for the vicious vicious cycle. And then my body, my body said
“Timeout”, like not only timeout but guess what you’re flatline. And so I literally could not exercise anymore. I couldn’t do anything that bought me joy being out in nature, I would, I would receive intravenous injections in order to get my nutrients into my system. So to bypass literally, like the gut issue, I was just doing anything that I could to be able to maintain the work level, I was unwilling to compromise my work schedule whatsoever. And we had a my husband and I he sat me down one night and he had a come to Jesus talk with me. And he’s like, okay, so this is where you are. And if you choose not to make any changes, I don’t think a we’re gonna laughed, our marriage is not gonna last and be more importantly, I think physically, you’re going to create a serious illness, something that you can’t recover from. And that’s going to force you to change your life. Yeah. And, and I, you know, of course, you know, I’m sitting there, you can barely keep my eyes open and pay attention to him. And I’m crying and snot dripping down my face. And you know, it’s not a pretty pretty scene. And I can remember blowing up and just storming out of the room, and I had to sit with it for about a week, you know, like, do I still want to be engaged in this marriage? Do I still want to participate in this game? And I said, Yeah, I said, I’m committed. So you know, what do we need to do? And he said, Well, this is what I’ve been thinking about, you know, do you think that you know, there’s an opportunity that I’ve been investigating in Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam? Do you think that you could leave your practices? And I just looked at him like, dude there’s no way? No way. I just my sweat equity that went into the my practices for the last 20 years. That’s it. And so he sat me and said, Look, you know, it come to Jesus gum, you know, I told you once was what’s gonna happen. And so finally, I was like, Well, I think he’s going to Vietnam. So I better like, put my stuff together and make this happen. And and it happened, and it happened fast. As soon as I made the decision. 45 days later, we sold the house, we sold the businesses, we sold all the contents within our home, and we moved to the other side of the world.

And I woke up in Ho Chi Minh City, literally, I mean, I felt upside down. And I was like, who am I?

MS 14:26
What am I here to do? What is my purpose? What’s my alignment? Why, why am I still here? What are we doing here? And so I freaked out, I freaked out so poorly, that I ran away from Ho Chi Minh City. So I ran away and went down to Bali, Indonesia, and I finished up my yoga, yoga teacher certification. I’ve always, always loved yoga, and I’ve always always been part of my life. So I was like, Okay, well, I just need some space. I got to clear my head. And what happened was, for the first time in my life, I had time and so I started to meditate.

MS 14:59
Now there was one tool that I really didn’t conceptually understand the transformative power is behind what it looks like to silence the mind and to go inward even for just 20 minutes today.

KW 15:09
Oh, yeah.

MS 15:12

KW 15:12
Massive. I want to pause really quick there. And

MS 15:14

KW 15:15
Ask you a couple questions about the story so far. So yeah, with all of this successes as you were building up the business, did you take any time to breathe? Or to celebrate? Or did you just keep going? Because it wasn’t enough.

MS 15:27
It wasn’t enough. It was never enough.

KW 15:19

MS 15:35
And I remember, Katie, this is pathetic. I remember turning 30. And my parents instilled the concept of goals at a very young age. And I remember being so naive and so full of myself. And so in over my head, I said at 30. What do you do if you overrun your goals at 30? Like, what do you do? You know, if you so my practice at that time was it was clearing probably over 500,000 a year. I mean, it was it was a pretty substantial practice. And my dad looked at me and I swear to God, he probably just rolled his eyes like I can’t even believe I’m having this conversation. And then he’s like, then you need to like either a make bigger goals or you need to diversify. Diversify your goals.

KW 16:23

MS 16:24
And I was like, okay, okay, so clearly, you know, there’s more to be had, you know, like, just go, go, go, go, go. Go.

KW 16:32
Yeah. And that’s and I had something similar in my cybersecurity career, I hit my financial goals, I hit the goals of where I wanted to be at 31. And I was crushingly disappointed. I was home by myself, crying. Because it wasn’t what I actually needed or desired. And it’s like, fuck, now, what do I do?

MS 16:57

KW 16:58
Like, now, what do I do? And so I just, I, my answer, then was to drink and do drugs. But please. So you, you went to Bali. And then you got your yoga teacher meditation, and then what happened from there?

MS 17:11
And so then I went back to Vietnam. And I was like, Okay, so I’m still meditating. I’m still doing my yoga. But there’s something really magical happening here. So I knew the body anatomically very well from the neck on down, clearly being a chiropractor for eight years. And then I’m like, what’s happening in this space between my ears? What’s happening within my brain? And so then I started to like, what is what’s neuroplasticity? What’s with these memories? What’s with these limiting belief systems? And I got really curious, because something clearly was happening, the direct result of all this meditation, then I was like, I need to study this, you know, I couldn’t just take my own personal experience, I need to see what fires that about it. Right. And that’s what led me to tal Ben Shahar. And I did I learned, you know, through the tools of positive psychology, that research can show you some of the tools or the habit that people that have and demonstrate resilience and the capacity to truly thrive in life, they have certain characteristics, you know, whether it be expressing gratitude, whether it be celebrating their successes, holy cow, whatever, you know, what a novel concept that way,

KW 18:18
pause and have a party and then continue to the next one.

MS 18:27
You know, something so complex, right?

KW 18:28
Right. Rocket science.

MS 18:31
So, so then, the neuroscience behind meditation, I started to understand what was happening chemically. Okay, so I was like, this is really changing my body. And so we took the tools, my husband and I took the tools, I was really lit up about the idea of positive psychology and the idea of holding space for people to do transformative work. So we created a nonprofit organization called Aviv education, which created a nine month curriculum to teach teachers the tools of positive psychology so that they could role model it with the kids in the classroom, and to create curriculum to support positive psychology. And so we were living in Vietnam, and then we decided to move to Bogota, Colombia. And lo and behold, this is one of life’s, you know, beautiful things that you don’t see, you know, you don’t know what’s coming. Right?

KW 19:20

MS 19:21
I was designing the curriculum, thinking I was going to be sold in the United States, and it took off in South America. So all of a sudden, our nonprofit organization took off in Peru and in Colombia.

KW 19:34

MS 19:35
And so I was engaged, you know, there so that’s one of the things you know, that keeps me focused, I was engaged I believed in what it was that I was doing. And then there came the time that I was like, this is still not it. This is not it. For me. This isn’t enough. So I was still having that. Like this was not my purpose kind of a thing I kept questioning what was my alignment about?

KW 19:57

MS 19:58
but then life happened. And I experienced a couple of deaths within my family, my immediate family. And I started to really tap into the energetics of what happened within people within a person’s physiology, energetically speaking, and what happens energetically when you’re in relations with another person. So that prompted me motivated me to once again go back and get my Master’s in intuition medicine. So now I knew the body then I knew the brain, and then I have to into the human energetics. But the burnout process getting me to the depths of where I was, is was the catalyst for my desire to transform.

And as Katie, you and I were both talking before we got on the show today that that process, the commitment to healing yourself, so that you can be a good container to hold space for another person that sacred. And so my healing journey is not done.

KW 21:11
Mine neither

MS 21:12
I am constantly receiving holding space and looking to better myself energetically to continue to hold space for others. But the burnout was the catalyst that was the rock bottom. And I wouldn’t be where I am today had it not been for that experience.

KW 21:24
And thank you for highlighting that story. Like it’s, I can feel everything you went through like mine, mine wasn’t a burnout thing. Mine resulted in chronic pain. But there’s a lot of parallels with what you’re talking about with someone who’s ignoring signals from the body, for burnout, for pain for some other autoimmune, whatever is coming up in your body. It is a similar series of events of ignoring the signals of overriding them of pushing yourself too hard, not stopping, not meditating, lots of doing doing doing doing doing. And very, very, very little being

I was giggling as you were talking about, you know, you don’t chiropractic school didn’t teach you how to run a business. Like early on. As I was getting my own business off the ground, I really realized quickly, like, oh, like I’ve got new confidence as an entrepreneur, but I’ve got confidence in the modality I’m practicing. And then like I had to separate them and then build up confidence as an entrepreneur. And, you know, in mad respect for what you did, creating a business out of nothing is one of the and I I pause to say this, but that let me try to say this in a past tense so that my brain doesn’t start looking for evidence that it’s still hard. This has been one of the most challenging things that I’ve ever done.

Unknown Speaker 22:48
Because you are literally creating something out of nothing, and nothing has given me more fulfillment, you know, and that’s what you’re doing, again, with what you do now. So tell us a little bit about what your business like I already highlighted a little bit in the bio. But tell us a little bit about you know, what you do now and how you’re able to help people and then I want to go into a couple different types of burnout and what someone may be experiencing, and some differences in there.

MS 23:16
You know, Katie, as you were talking there, I want to share an image that I had and you you set the stage for and that there was so much efforting so much pushing so much Wheeling of energy, my in, you know, when I was running my chiropractic business, even when we were doing the nonprofit, but there happened to be just a little bit more serendipity synchronicity, a little bit more grace in the nonprofit organization. Now, again, starting another business in my mid 50s. The approach is the reminder is to set the intention behind what it is that I want to create right and to be in alignment with my highest purpose. Because wheeling and pushing no longer serves me

KW 24:05

MS 24:07
It just doesn’t.

KW 24:08

MS 24:09
It just doesn’t mind.

KW 24:11
It’s exhausting.

MS 24:12
It is. And I believe I truly do believe and I think this is where you are headed in that when we look at burnout. I’m one of the scientists that I have a lot of respect for who does researcher who does research in the field of burnout has broken burnout into three different categories and one youth being the sure the pure physical exhaustion and I’m just going to say mental exhaustion in there as well. So that’s just one component. And then the other component is when a person starts to experience cynicism, and they start to get that negative mindset, essentially. Right. So that’s the second component she measures and then the third component, she measures the efficacy. And that’s essentially as you were talking about this skill set matching the job description.

KW 25:02

MS 25:03
And so now I know that in the past, okay, so when I was running my chiropractic business, I was using will and pushing an effort. I mean, I pushed everything, including my employees, which was not, when I look back, I think that’s the one thing that that creates the heartache for me that I could have been a better manager, I could have been a kinder person. So anyway, to make a long story short, when we look at mass flux inventory, and we’re looking at the three different classifications of burnout, that’s physical exhaustion, if you’re going to rate only high within that area, I mean, clearly, we know how to not that we necessarily always follow the advice, but we know how to cut that. We know how to say no a little bit more frequently, or we know how to minimize maybe if you’re commuting into work five days a week, maybe you commute four days, and you have one day at work at home. I mean, those are things that can shift how exhausted you feel. So that’s just one component. But if you add and cynicism, you know, and I’m gonna call it the mind that the mentor, body, if you will burn out, if you add that in there, that’s a different beast, then you need to figure out how can we get you essentially engaged on a level that’s going to bring enjoyment back into your life?

KW 26:35
Yes, yes.

MS 26:36
And then last, but not least, is the efficacy. So if I, if we could just get everybody in, this is where positive psychology comes into play. If I can say, okay, Katie, nice to meet you. Tell me what are you good at? Tell me what are your strengths? Because guaranteed, you’re going to have strengths that I don’t possess. And I’m going to have some strengths that you don’t possess. So how can we align our strengths so that we can work more effectively as a team?

KW 27:02
Yeah, I love that, you know, in full disclosure, because that’s the way I roll. And anybody who’s listened to this knows that. So I’m experiencing burnout right now. But it’s just the the physical exhaustion, and what I am doing to counter that I have vacation in nine days. Calm down, and I got caught up in the doing doing doing doing doing that was 2022. For me, I haven’t had vacation since August, it’s me. That’s way too long. I took maybe a couple days here and there. But I was getting driven by fear in 2022. And then I enrolled in this program that we were talking about, that helps me learn how to create a sustainable business system, because nothing matters more to me than the work I’m doing now. You know, one of my superpowers is I see someone’s full potential. A lot of times before they do what I keep making the mistake of as I see it, and people have dating. And I’ve learned that they need to be seeing it too, in order for me to date them. But that’s a whole other episode. But I see that in my clients. So it’s very easy for me to hold space of what’s possible for them, until they can see it themselves. That’s one of my superpowers. And I still have client sessions before I’m going on vacation. And so like I was telling you, Mary, before we hopped on, like, I just spent an hour and a half just sitting and chatting with my friend, instead of doing doing doing. And that was a big shift that I really learned from this program is they really encourage like, yes, there’s a lot of work to really get the system going. And they also are very, very encouraging about meditating, about mindset about being about not pushing about, again, being and staying in it. And this has been vastly easier. And as soon as I stopped doing, my calendar blew up with clients, whereas I was scrounging for them previously. And now, I’m actually shifting that I’m gonna have to stop offering just one off appointments because I don’t have room for them anymore. I need people who are really committed to healing. And I am not as much of a service in just one session as I am with someone who’s going to be in it to really transform like I’m transformational coach, you’re not going to transform your life and 90 minutes, you can transform one little piece of it, but your life, your pain that’s not happening in 90 minutes. And so I’m really taking those time I’ve been spending a lot of time outside because that recharges my batteries. And so I have three client sessions tomorrow at four on Friday. And in between those. It’s lots of rest. It’s lots of self care. It’s giving myself that space to just be like I will get to this other stuff later.

And it’s having that balance in there, you know, and it’s taken me a while to get there, and my body because I was in pain before, my body’s giving me lots of messages. And I’m listening to them, because otherwise I’m going to get sick. Or I’m going to be back in pain again, that could potentially get to double it, I don’t, it’s never going to get to debilitating levels with me again, because I’m too into now to let that happen. But that was a risk a while ago. And so I still watch that really carefully for myself. And so hearing you say that I’m like, Yep, we’re just gonna keep it at the physical exhaustion. We’re not letting it get past that, because I cannot compromise what my clients need. For me, that’s way too important for the work that I’m doing. And I know you feel similarly with guarding energy and saying no, where you have to, so that you can show for your clients and your programs and with everything that you do, to make sure that you are able to facilitate at the highest level of energy that you can operate at.

MS 30:55
Yeah. And first and foremost, Katie, when I listened to you, when I listened to you from an intuitive place, I hear the resonance of the words that you’re choosing, and I know, like, I know, within every cell of my being that you will not, you will not go down that path again.

KW 31:19

MS 31:20
You may flirt with it. Now I want to talk about the rotation. And I believe and I know to be true that neurologically we have a wiring Okay, so we know that neural pathways can be created and you can change them. But know that you have a predisposed memory of what this ote what does burnout look like for you and the corporate just like it looked like for me, we know we have a memory of that. It runs really close. And it Pat, the pattern is very similar to a trauma pattern.

KW 31:55

MS 31:56
And so we have that wiring, like it’s already within us. And there is a certain amount of respect, it’s like, we also know like, just like if you see addictions in your family, if you know that your wiring is predisposed to addictions, you then become you have a little bit more respect for reduction addictions, because you know that you have the propensity of going down that path. And I think burnout is very, very, very similar. A you and I have, but we’ve been very candid and honest with one another that we flirt with it, like, like, you can honestly say, Okay, I pushed the needle a little too far on that. And I was probably in that for maybe a month too long. But I now I’m making choices to come back to center. And I’m going to take a little bit more rest and relaxation. But I guess what I am finding within myself, the calibration that is necessary, is frequent. I’m humbled by how many reminders that I need to have, and I share this with you, because you may find yourself moving forward, even after your vacation, making some pop, maybe some not feel positive decisions, and kind of flirting with that intensity again. And what I’m learning is, is that for every event or action or that I commit to, I have to ask myself beforehand, is this truly in alignment with my highest good and with the intention of my purpose? If it’s somewhere like within 10 degrees on either side, I’m like, Okay, that’s enough wiggle room for me, I think that’s safe. That’s a safe event for me to do. But if I sit with that, and I’m like, oh, good Lord, that takes me like 40 degrees off my true north, then that kind of stresses me out. Like I started to kind of physically feel it. Like I don’t want to stress my body anymore. I don’t want I want to know and and to have more respect for myself. And I openly admitted that for me. I’m like, because of my history. I always have the fear of missing out if I say no.

KW 34:06

MS 34:06
And then I’m like, did I get I make that right decision. And then I’m like my, and then I come back. I’m like, Hey, man, stop that internal chatter, because you asked yourself, if it was in alignment with your highest good and you said no. So let it go. Let it go know that something else or some other event or some other commitment is going to be in better alignment.

KW 34:30
And I want to help you with that FOMO piece because something else just came in as you’re saying that is so there was a recent retreat that was part of the program and I said no because it wasn’t going to work for where I am financially with other financial commitments I have and other responsibilities. I know that I’ve got some stuff I need to do around the house this summer, things along that line and making sure that I wasn’t going to be freaking out, you know, on vacation, like everything’s all prepaid for it and everything so there’s no extra expenses there. But making sure I had the room and I’m not working, I don’t get paid time off anymore. It’s just time off. I’m not getting paid when I’m not working. And I said no to that retreat. And because it was something in integrity, the coaches checked me on that too. And they were like, Yeah, this isn’t like next time, maybe it’s in alignment for me. But this time, it’s not. And they were in agreement. And they still extended an offer that they didn’t extend to very many people. Like, I think they said there was maybe one or two people that didn’t go that they extended this offer to and I accepted that offer. So even if I missed the event, what I would have truly needed the most out of that event still came to me, which tells me that’s just that extra validation that is in alignment with my soul. So I invite you for, you know, you’re looking like, should I say yes to this? Look at what gift is going to come in for you being in alignment with your soul, because, you know, I know you and I both firmly believe the universe always has our back.

MS 36:06
Oh, absolutely,

KW 36:06
For everybody, all the time. Yeah.

MS 36:10
And if it’s ever supporting us in the in, it’s working for us, not against us.

KW 36:17

MS 36:18
And so when I really tap into and it took me a long time, and I say a long time, I’m saying probably five years to really embrace, what’s grace and ease.

KW 36:27

Unknown Speaker 36:28
What is that? And so to really sit with how do I allow and invite more grace and ease into my world? That’s also a constant daily reflection. So I do believe that, you know, because, you know, I get a clear intuition for No, don’t do don’t do this, but maybe just sit and see what else comes up.

Yeah, it’s really it’s very magical. In the realm of, and for me, energetically, it’s tapping in, it’s creating a stronger alignment within the vertical power current, which aligned my energy system, the chakra systems, but allows me to transcend into the scaffolding of some higher energy systems, to where we can create prosperity and abundance. And as we were talking about this, as well, and prosperity looks different, and is defined or wealth is defined differently for all individuals.

KW 37:27

MS 37:28
And you and I both are in alignment, that being prosperous means that we’re of service, being of service to others in our transformation. Because we’ve lived it we know that we know the changes, we we it’s palpable. You know, the night and day difference that happens once somebody goes through that space. So really tapping into the eighth and the alignment of all that you wish to manifest in this physical plane. That’s your right that’s your gift. That’s your that’s that’s your right to claim your right to align with that version of your best self.

KW 38:01
Yeah, I love that. That’s, that’s so beautifully put in it’s in your right like that. That’s the acceleration I’m seeing is because I and I’m still I’m a part of it. I did a human design session a couple months ago. And part of it is i i love to work, like my my human design type loves to work and so much to your point, I’m always going to be predisposed to burnout. But the burnout that I’m experiencing now is, gosh, I’d probably say like 90 degrees to 180 degrees different of what I experienced in corporate part of it was because I had no skills to come back from burnout in corporate. And the other part was that I wasn’t in it for the right reason. It wasn’t in alignment with why I was here, like I was cleaning up people’s inboxes. I mean, now there there is a whole lot of trauma. Actually, they didn’t come with some of the stuff that comes in the mail and the email anyway, with a lot of these business email compromises the victims of that there’s actually huge, but that wasn’t what I was getting to touch on in corporate and I wasn’t getting to work with the victims to help them heal from that trauma. And that’s what I’m here to do. Like, I know that at my core, like pain is a big focus, because that’s what the trauma wound up doing in my body and from going, going going. And I’m really starting to actually expand that more into trauma. Because that’s there’s not one person I work with, that doesn’t have trauma in their history, to some degree.

And I don’t like to say that life is traumatizing, because that’s so limiting. And your brain is going to go find all sorts of reasons to make that true. So it’s not that’s not true. But life happens. Life is challenging at times. But what we do with those challenges, you know, and you said it so beautifully before you you’ve dug in and when we start to repeat our story, your brain is going to go back there again. And I’ve really shifted the wording in my story. And I’m talking less about what happened to me and like, okay, you can read about it on my website, you can listen to some of my early podcast episodes, you can hear what happened to me, I want to stay really with where I am now, relatively pain-free moving forward. Because I’m done with that story. It doesn’t serve me anymore. And it’s out there for the world to see like, you can get it anywhere, you want to know how I wound up disabled, but I don’t want to go back there anymore. Because I’m my brain, that neural pathways deep enough, I’d much rather create the other ones that are keeping me pain-free, that are allowing me to get lost in the Botanical Gardens with my friend and take an inadvertent five mile hike and not suffer for it. That was my Sunday.

Like, literally, we were hiking for five miles, and we somehow got lost. And I’m like, okay, so but there was a time I wouldn’t have been able to handle that. Yeah. And I’m going to continue moving forward, you know, and I want anybody listening to really hear that. The more you repeat your story, the more your brain is going to look for evidence to keep you in that story. So start to see if you can let it go. Whether your story is pain or your story is burnout, like Mary’s talking about and burnout, by the way, subset of pain, burnout is painful. It is absolutely related in here, start to let it go. Do whatever you need to do journal, reach out to Mary reach out to me, especially reach out to Mary because she’s a burnout Pro. And get that out of your body. So you can start to move forward. And I say a pro is in a you’re a pro is getting people out of burnout not being burned out

MS 41:50
it’s actually both now.

KW 41:52
Fair enough

MS 41:54
But you know, Katie, what you’re what you’re describing, literally, there’s science in the world, in the field of positive psychology about the power of the brain. And restoring the whole technique is called restoring. And there’s so much research to substantiate what you have lived through experientially to say this is a proven technique. So listeners, please follow Katie’s suggestion and literally write a different version of your story out as frequently as you can, but with the same desired outcome.

KW 42:27
Yes, that’s very important in there. So what would you say for someone who’s going oh, my gosh, this sounds like me, or they see their or hopefully, they’re heading towards burnout. And they aren’t there yet. What is some advice that you would have for them, Mary so that they can start to rewrite their story, potentially, avoid burn out or get out of it much faster?

Unknown Speaker 42:49
Well, the first thing that I want to say to the listeners is that know that you’re not alone. And so there’s a lot of people out there like I was, they were faking it until they were making it. And so that they were painting on a beautiful, you know, smile every day and looking all positive and upbeat and high energy frequency, that just a mask, so that 50% of the population is feeling the same way that you are. And so I think it’s important to surround yourself with people who can support you in the transition. So the awareness is the first step. The second step is possibly asking for assistance. And I think that the more that you sit within that state that chronic you know, that state that that neg negative downward spiral, that path that you’re on, the further the trajectory goes. And so I’m just inviting you to do something different sooner rather than later so that you can shift that you know, the direction in which you’re heading, because I don’t I don’t wish no Katie, I can I know you can say this the same thing. I don’t wish what I experienced upon another human being

KW 44:07
no, no, not even my worst enemy would not want anybody to go through what I’ve gone through. Not at all.

MS 44:13
There’s not necessary. And that’s not what life is. No, because, you know, just like you went through your moment of like, you know, what am I doing? And my moment, I was like, This is it. This is what I work. This is what I busted my butt for. And this is what I got. You’re kidding me. You’re kidding me?

KW 44:34

MS 44:35
So there are different there are different outcomes. Trust me, please trust me when I say that, even if you really are questioning my comment right now.

KW 44:45
And whatever path you’re on, my guess would be without knowing you without knowing your story. It’s 100% avoidable because mine was didn’t make decisions to avoid it. I made decisions to continue to go into it because your brain is going to look for whatever you’re putting out there, it’s going to look for evidence. It’s as simple as you know, if you decide you’re going to have a good day, your brain is gonna line that up for you to have a good day. If you wake up pissed off and decide that your day is gonna suck, guess what your day is gonna suck. And that goes on a grander and grander scale. It’s not just in one little thing that we’re doing here. Every time you tell yourself, you’re in pain, Hey, your body’s gonna give you evidence to show you that you’re in pain. Every time you say that you’re exhausted compound, he’s gonna give you evidence to show that you’re exhausted. So start to utilize these things in a way that’s going to benefit you, and help shift whatever you’re going, going on whatever you’re going through right now.

MS 45:49
And, Katie, I believe that I believe that your energy follows thoughts and intentions. And even if you have to get super creative and imaginative, and you know, in visualizing a different outcome, the energies just kind of follow it.

So and again, your brain doesn’t know what’s perceived, what’s imagined. What’s good, or what’s real. Yeah. So you know, have some fun with it. I have found and embraced so much creativity over the last God knows how many years probably the last five years, but creativity is a good thing. A lot of allow your imagination to run wild, you know, run with it.

KW 46:28
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Like, what do you desire in your life, like and let go of how you’re gonna get there, because a how is going to trip you up every time. Right? It’s, it’s focusing on what you desire for yourself like that the how is going to be clear every step of the way. And when it’s not clear, it will become clear when it’s time to take the next step. So if it’s not clear, maybe it’s time for you just hang out with whatever you have achieved, and be before you try to take a note. And I still have a really hard time with that. That’s why my vacation involves being completely unplugged for an entire week. I can’t wait!

MS 47:04
That’s great. That’s great. And that that’s exactly that date, that pause that you just talked about, you know, trusting that the next thing is going to be there, that that’s what allows me to override my fear of missing out. So that’s, that’s that that trust?

KW 47:21
Yeah. And it can get exciting, right? When you start to think like, oh, what could possibly be coming next?

MS 47:28

KW 47:29
And not a what next? No, you’re going to attract negativity there, but the blue, what’s next? Or please, thank you. That’s going to create some cool shit in your world. I’ve noticed that over and over again, not just in my life, but in lots of people around me when you start putting that mindset on. What have you seen when people start taking that mindset of like, Ooh, what’s next?

MS 47:51
Yeah. So I’m thankful that you asked me because I would having a really strong vision with so one of my favorite things when I’m setting an entrainment for another person is to guide the breath, the breath is a really powerful mechanism. But when we use the breath, and and I’m and I’m so conditioned now when I talk about it to start breathing differently, but that there’s going to be an inhalation in just the awareness of how you breathe. But when you really start looking in analyzing the breath is this moment, what after you take a deep breath in there, this moment of spaciousness, this moment of emptiness, before you exhale. And then guess what, at the end of your exhale, at the very bottom of your exhale is a moment of spaciousness, the moment of unknown than the moment of untapped potential. And then the breath cycle starts again. And so to be able to just physiologically fit within that space, and it’s comfortable once you surrender to it, to fit in the space of the unknown of what happens really, between your inhalation and your exhalation. And it’s just simply magical. And it’s an easy exercise. But to really again, I love because it shifts people the energies, it’s like, oh, and I just today I was holding space for a lady that would probably her third session. And so as soon as we were getting into that spaciousness of the breath, what started happening in my mind, I could literally see each layer of her auric field coming down in clear definition and grounding into the Earth’s frequency. So as she is reflecting within this space, she’s receiving this beautiful nurturing sustainable earth frequency coming through surging through her system. And its shift. Ah, goodness gracious.

KW 50:00
I feel my whole body relaxing, just hearing you say that. Like, I’m one of the things I’m still dealing with physically, I just want to mention this before we make sure everybody knows where to find you leave with a really powerful action item for anybody to take who’s hearing this and resonating today. So I’m, my hormones are still out of whack, and I’m working with someone else to help get them back on line. But it means that I wake up with hot flashes a lot. And so that happened last night. And anytime it does, like that’s exactly what I do is I’m like, okay, just gonna focus on the breath. Inhale, exhale. And my ego is always like, it’s never gonna work. And like, as soon as I’m thinking, Oh, I’m out cold, like, again, within probably two to three breaths, just focusing on that. And just, it’s okay, inhale, pause, exhale, pause. And just going into that, when you focus on that your mind cannot race.

MS 50:59
Again, it can’t, it can’t. That’s a single point, focus.

KW 51:03

MS 51:04
And it’s such a beautiful thing to be able to do that from meditation. I say that, because that is a meditation technique that you can apply when you have an overactive mind. And so I find that, you know, there are people that are so busy, you know, with an overactive mind that the moment that they do try to silence they fall asleep.

KW 51:27

MS 51:28
And that’s just another a another mechanism of of some, sometimes avoidance, but the breath work is so powerful, really, really beautiful techniques.

KW 51:35
Yeah, and my brain is, it’s actually starting to slow down again, but it’s been really, really hyperactive for the last several months with with getting the summit out the door and overlooking vacation and everything. And so that’s exactly what happens. As soon as I breathe, like, I’m telling for the count, which is great. And it’s it’s getting easier and easier to sleep, it’s getting easier and easier to meditate again, like I was really struggling to keep some of those for a while because my nervous system was just go, go, go, go go. And just like, This isn’t how we get things done. Katie, you do not go Go, go go go to get things done. Stop. So, yeah,

MS 52:17
I think that’s a great reminder. Because when we are pushing ourselves, the first thing that we think that we don’t have time for is our meditation practice. And so you know, the opportunity is to lengthen is to increase the amount of time of your meditation to really get to the point of, of relaxing. And again, I don’t think the point of a meditation is to silence the brain, I think really, the focus should be on listening to the messages of the brain. But there is that magical moment that you shift away from your frontal lobe of analyzing and shifting into the department, the default mode network, so which I call the meditation sanctuary. And that’s, that’s a really blissful spot to be. So my, what I learned is when I start to run my stress, that means I need to increase my meditation.

KW 53:06
Yep. Yeah, same.

MS 53:08
And sometimes it’s just not long enough.

KW 53:12
Yeah, and what I’ve what I’ve done, like if I do have a lot, that’s in my day, I’ll work and into something I’m doing. Like, I’ll, if I have to go water my yard, then I’ll meditate while I’m doing that. And I’ll just be out there in silence. And just and it really relaxes me and recharges my batteries. And I come back inside and I feel fully refreshed. Versus being annoyed that I have to water my plants, then it’s gonna be irritating and draining. I’m like, oh, okay, well, let’s meditate and water at the same time. And I’m connecting with nature. I’m out in my beautiful yard that I absolutely love. And it’s so healthy and impactful for me and I meditate before I get out of bed. And I meditate in the evening before I go to sleep. And being able to book in my days like that, it really helps. Even when my nervous system is telling me to go go go go go. I insist on keeping that I may struggle with it. I may be in resistance to it, but I still do it. Because I know that that is one of the keys, the pillars of health for me and of wellness and of staying out of pain.

Unknown Speaker 54:20
Thank you so much for joining me today. Mary, can you please share where we can find you? And any? Yeah, any place where we can they can find you and how you can work with people?

MS 54:32
Sure, sure. Thank you. I appreciate you asking and I just want to let the listeners know that there is a I feel an intuitive hit that people receive when they get aligned with the right person to work with. So what I want to offer to those that are listening is when you connect on my website, there’s always going to be an opportunity for you to do a discovery call or get to know me kind of call and that’s an opportunity for 15 to 30 minutes just to check each other out, feel each other’s frequency, find out about the philosophies. Are we in alignment? Is there is there something that feels right, organically about the connection, because that’s really, I want people to trust their intuition that I want to help support people in opening up the channels in which they receive information. So that’s the first thing. That’s the simplest way.

KW 55:29

MS 55:30
And so my website is www.drmarysanders.com. So Dr. Mary Sanders, Dr. Ma, R, ey, S A, and B E. r f.com. And the website is kind of a breathing organism. And so it’s constantly being updated with new programs or events. And you’ll find that I have longer signature programs that really walk through the whole burnout process over a five month plan, you find various different healing packages, I like Katie will most definitely support you as a new client with just one session. However, I also support people who are truly in alignment with personal transformation by doing longer packages. And it all depends on the intensity of the healing journey that the person is on. But you won’t find any one-off sessions on my website for scheduling. My history there, my bio is there. My philosophy is there. I have, you know, free classes, I have master classes, you name it, it’s there. But most importantly, I do hope it would be my honor to connect with you and to chat with you and then to get to sit within your frequency. So take advantage of that discovery call of you know, get to know me call.

KW 56:59
Absolutely. That is great advice. Thank you so much. And what what action item do you want to end with Mary? What one what is one action someone can take from today’s episode that they can bring into their life that you want to suggest?

MS 57:14
That’s simple. Breathing exercise

KW 57:18
Breathing exercise beautiful. Yeah, I’m going to be extra really focusing on that tonight when I do my meditations. Thank you for sharing that.

MS 57:27
And if it helps, if you’re a counter and you feel like you need something to focus on, just focus on in inhaling for a count of four, and then perhaps holding for a count to four to six, and then really lengthen through the exhalation by a count of eight, and then start the cycle all over but really relished the space. The expansiveness of the of the unknown of the breath.

KW 57:56
Beautiful advice. Thank you again for joining me today. Mary. This has been a wonderful conversation. And thank you audience for joining as well. I hope you’re gonna come back again next week. We are going to be talking to a guest who was diagnosed with Multiple Sclerosis over 20 years ago. And without doing the traditional medical solutions, she is symptom free still today. So if you want to hear exactly how she did it, come back next week and you can learn from yourself. Until then, please never forget. Chronic doesn’t have to mean permanent.

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